UAF, smellie is giving you a viable option that is about the same price as setting the barrel back and cheaper than a new barrel. Something else you should check out as well. Try fitting the brand of 9mm Luger ammunition you shoot into the Destroyer magazine. You may find that they are actually to long.
9mm LUGER Spanish Destroyer Carbine?
- Thread starter Until the Angels Fall
- Start date
Nobody said a thing about rare, old ammo. I am making the stuff up right now for a friend's DESTROYER carbine. I'm using fresh Winchester 9x23 brass, standard 9mm slugs in several weights, Small Pistol primers and a tiny little dab of powder. You get about 1250 loads out of a pound, so the cost is not all that terrible to bear. Works out to a little over 5 bucks a box.
And the stuff is FRESH, reliable, accurate and non-corrosive.
It's actually cheaper than buying ammo and it's a lot of fun rolling your own. You can actually use 9x21 dies for the job (I am using Lee dies for this job), which also work just fine for reloading your 9mm Para at about half the price of buying a box of shells.
And it's fun, too.
And the stuff is FRESH, reliable, accurate and non-corrosive.
It's actually cheaper than buying ammo and it's a lot of fun rolling your own. You can actually use 9x21 dies for the job (I am using Lee dies for this job), which also work just fine for reloading your 9mm Para at about half the price of buying a box of shells.
And it's fun, too.
- Location
- London, Ontario
Well maybe is sounds a little harder then it is.....I have not yet got into reloading but once I do maybe this will all be easier for me to figure out.
Not really a lot to figure out; I got it right the first time and I'm no screaming genius.
Doesn't cost much to get into if you start with single-stage equipment. You can pick up a good manual, scale, measure, press and dies from any Lee dealer for about 130 bucks or a little more. That's enough to get you started. Anything you need to learn, you can learn right here from a thousand guys who know all about it.
And you'll have the satisfaction of loading your own 9mm Para AND shooting a truly rare little rifle in the original calibre....... which, by the way, outperforms the Para to quite a degree. With the right ammo, a DESTROYER can go shot-for-shot on the 100-yard plates. You can't do that in a pistol, with regular Para loads.
Doesn't cost much to get into if you start with single-stage equipment. You can pick up a good manual, scale, measure, press and dies from any Lee dealer for about 130 bucks or a little more. That's enough to get you started. Anything you need to learn, you can learn right here from a thousand guys who know all about it.
And you'll have the satisfaction of loading your own 9mm Para AND shooting a truly rare little rifle in the original calibre....... which, by the way, outperforms the Para to quite a degree. With the right ammo, a DESTROYER can go shot-for-shot on the 100-yard plates. You can't do that in a pistol, with regular Para loads.
I agree with smellie, but am pretty sure you'd lose value in the change. Destroyers aren't extremely so, but they are collectible. If you want a 9mm rifle, why not leave the Destroyer alone and get one of the Marlin Camp Carbines, built for 9mm and takes S&W magazines? It's probably almost as hard to find as a Destroyer, but is semi-auto, 9mm, dependable and not particularly collectible.
Really nice thing is that if you have the equipment, you can load the 9mm LARGO (aka 9mm Bergmann-Bayard, aka 9x23) AND the 9x19 (aka 9mm NATO, aka 9mm Parabellum, aka 9mm Luger) with the same dies!
The only differences are that the cartridges are different lengths: 19mm for the Luger, 23mm for the Largo (DESTROYER). The extra 4mm of case length lets you pour in a bit more powder and still keep the pressures more-or-less rational.
You end up with pistol ammunition suited to your pistol and CARBINE ammunition which will make the little DESTROYER perform the way it should: hit harder than the pistol round and at longer ranges. ADD to that the velocity boost you get from the longer barrel and you really have something.
I once chrono'd my 1911 Colt and my Reising Model 50 with ammo from the same box. Reising got better than 200 ft/sec more velocity, which made for about 40% more power with the 225 slugs I was using. The Reising could do things at 100 and even farther that you couldn't even THINK about with the Colt.
You have the same situation here with the DESTROYER but even moreso: the Largo cartridge is considerably more power than the Luger round, just to start off with. The long barrel on the DESTROYER gives you yet MORE advantage and, if you use proper ammo, the thing will be throated correctly and MUCH more accurate. That's why I went to the little bit of trouble to get 9x23 brass for my friend's DESTROYER: so we could cook up handloads which get the most out of the little rifle in every way.
We're having a lot of fun at this. You can, too!
The only differences are that the cartridges are different lengths: 19mm for the Luger, 23mm for the Largo (DESTROYER). The extra 4mm of case length lets you pour in a bit more powder and still keep the pressures more-or-less rational.
You end up with pistol ammunition suited to your pistol and CARBINE ammunition which will make the little DESTROYER perform the way it should: hit harder than the pistol round and at longer ranges. ADD to that the velocity boost you get from the longer barrel and you really have something.
I once chrono'd my 1911 Colt and my Reising Model 50 with ammo from the same box. Reising got better than 200 ft/sec more velocity, which made for about 40% more power with the 225 slugs I was using. The Reising could do things at 100 and even farther that you couldn't even THINK about with the Colt.
You have the same situation here with the DESTROYER but even moreso: the Largo cartridge is considerably more power than the Luger round, just to start off with. The long barrel on the DESTROYER gives you yet MORE advantage and, if you use proper ammo, the thing will be throated correctly and MUCH more accurate. That's why I went to the little bit of trouble to get 9x23 brass for my friend's DESTROYER: so we could cook up handloads which get the most out of the little rifle in every way.
We're having a lot of fun at this. You can, too!
- Location
- London, Ontario
Well now that I know there will actually be a noticable difference in power compared to a 9mm Luger I am happy and excited to start this project
Welcome on board, friend!
When you get one, post here or PM and I'll give you the data.
Same powder, same caps, same slug as the Para: just different brass and a little more powder. DESTROYER does the rest, all by itself.
When you get one, post here or PM and I'll give you the data.
Same powder, same caps, same slug as the Para: just different brass and a little more powder. DESTROYER does the rest, all by itself.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
FWIW, these things are much more fun in 9x23 Largo. I know the ammo is harder to get but it isn't hard to handload.
- Location
- London, Ontario
Would this be a good gun/round for hunting small game and possibly deer?
It should be a good small-game rifle, but I really don't think it's in the deer-rifle class. Just not enough oomph.
You really want something in the .30-30 class or bigger for deer.
If you want a really decent deer rifle, pick up a sporter (or a Bubba) Swede Mauser in 6.5x55. You'll have one of the finest deer rounds ever made in a rifle that is fast, reliable as a brick and likely will shoot 1 inch at 100 yards. Don;t get an original rifle and 'sporter' it; there are already lots and lots done, even factory conversions with fibreglass stocks, and none of them are awfully expensive.
Dollar for dollar, likely the best light-recoiling deer rifle out there.... and the commercially-done ones were drilled and tapped for scopes, so that saves you another 60 bucks right there. Ammo used to be strange and unobtainable. Most shops stock it these days and it is made by Federal, Remington and Wnchester as well as by a number of foreign factories.
Enough of these were done 20 years ago that they inflated the prices of the few remaining original rifles! Should be able to find one somewhere. Best VALUE for DOLLARS you will find.
You really want something in the .30-30 class or bigger for deer.
If you want a really decent deer rifle, pick up a sporter (or a Bubba) Swede Mauser in 6.5x55. You'll have one of the finest deer rounds ever made in a rifle that is fast, reliable as a brick and likely will shoot 1 inch at 100 yards. Don;t get an original rifle and 'sporter' it; there are already lots and lots done, even factory conversions with fibreglass stocks, and none of them are awfully expensive.
Dollar for dollar, likely the best light-recoiling deer rifle out there.... and the commercially-done ones were drilled and tapped for scopes, so that saves you another 60 bucks right there. Ammo used to be strange and unobtainable. Most shops stock it these days and it is made by Federal, Remington and Wnchester as well as by a number of foreign factories.
Enough of these were done 20 years ago that they inflated the prices of the few remaining original rifles! Should be able to find one somewhere. Best VALUE for DOLLARS you will find.
I don't know the classification of the Marlin, but it probably is restricted. Best check with CFC (have to anyway if you decide to buy one). The 9mm Largo round is certainly capable of killing a deer, but using it as a hunting round isn't really wise. It's a pistol calibre round and not for game hunting. The Destroyer is a miniature Mauser that was meant to be a police carbine. It was made in the same calibre as the Spanish national police issue sidearm of the day. It's light and handy, but hardly a hunting rifle, any more than an M1 carbine would be -- it's possible but not advisable.
- Location
- London, Ontario
Well I think I would just use it for small game......with the bush we have here most shots are under 100 yards anyways.
Still, all said and done. if you're under 100 yards and you can really place your bullet, you just could pull it off with a Destroyer, especially if it's in the original calibre. Wouldn't want to make a habit of it, though.
Swede Mauser is still your best bet for a real deer rifle. Or a .303 certainly has the horsepower and you still can find them at far below replacement cost.
No matter: handloading is simple and quick for both and there is very little difference in the cost of finished ammo. Same powder and caps for both the rifle rounds, while your pistol cartridges will take same caps, powder and slugs for both, just a bit more powder and different brass. Check out the Hornady XTP bullet for close-range hunting with a HV pistol cartridge such as the 9mm Largo: they are designed for expansion at very low velocities and just might make the Destroyer into a (very) minimal deer gun.
And check your local laws regarding calibre and power levels before you go hunting. Wouldn't want to hand over a nice little Destroyer for scrapping, especially not after handing the Gummint a couple of months' pay in fines. Be careful. Pays off in the long run.
Swede Mauser is still your best bet for a real deer rifle. Or a .303 certainly has the horsepower and you still can find them at far below replacement cost.
No matter: handloading is simple and quick for both and there is very little difference in the cost of finished ammo. Same powder and caps for both the rifle rounds, while your pistol cartridges will take same caps, powder and slugs for both, just a bit more powder and different brass. Check out the Hornady XTP bullet for close-range hunting with a HV pistol cartridge such as the 9mm Largo: they are designed for expansion at very low velocities and just might make the Destroyer into a (very) minimal deer gun.
And check your local laws regarding calibre and power levels before you go hunting. Wouldn't want to hand over a nice little Destroyer for scrapping, especially not after handing the Gummint a couple of months' pay in fines. Be careful. Pays off in the long run.
- Location
- London, Ontario
Yea I will have to look into the local laws here to see if its allowed. I am planning on building up a Stevens 200 in .308Win this summer which will be my primary "big" game gun.
