9mm reload help please.

[GMJim]

Frankford Arsenal pocket scale is good enough. You don’t need Sartorius or Mettler Toledo for this.

Another thing to play with is powder. Titegroup is dense, I don’t like it in volumetric dispensers (e.g. Dillon), because any variation in volume translates into bigger difference in weight compared to a less dense powder. If you weighing each one individually on a scale it should not matter as much. Try to find some Vihtavuori N320 - it works very well in 9mm.

Thanks for the advice. I've been using Bullseye for years but can't get it anywhere anymore. My supplier got some Titegtoup in so I thought I'd try it and was lucky to get it. I think all the powder is being sent to the U.S military for Ukraine and Israel.

I'm thinking if you got 3.5grn of TG, you got reduced springs in your gun. As TG and W231 load data were only off a few tenths. I doubt my gun would cycle with that low of a charge. I got a Shadow with the factory springs.

Amazon my weight or smart weight scale is accurate enough.

My SP-01 is a Shadowmate. Gunsmith tuned from the factory. I haven't changed the stock springs but did get extra springs with the gun with NO WAY of determining the weight of them. I ordered a powder scale from Amazon (same as the RCBS). Here are some pictures of my gun.

Here is my Frankford next to a 20$ Amazon smartphone weight scale. Both with 20g check weight. 50G check weights were a bit more in difference.

View attachment 769171
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Thanks I ordered a digital powder scale on Amazon (Same as the RCBS)

3.5gr of Titegroup under a 124gr plated bullet is almost as light as it gets. Titegroup's a great powder. It's versatile, it meters very well (even volumetrically), and relatively cheap. Some people think it's too "snappy", and maybe that's what you're feeling, but I've never noticed/cared. You can try a different powder (HP-38/Win 231, Accurate #2, Unique etc.) but I'm not sure if that's going to solve any of your problems. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from Vihtavuori, it's just overpriced internet hyped powder. To each their own, I guess.

P.S. I too own the FA digital scale (with a traditional balance type as a backup) and find that it's sufficient for loading pistol rounds. As OkayShooter stated above, many cheap(er) scales are accurate enough.

P.S.S. I'm going to sound like a broken record but...you should always determine your own max OAL. OAL's listed in manuals/data are useless. Make a long inert dummy round and continually shorten it until in plunks and spins in the barrel(s) you intend to use with that load. Every bullet/barrel combo is different and when you load a new bullet you should once again determine the max OAL.

I think SNAPPY is a good description! Like I said earlier, maybe just me?

I use 4.0gr of Titegroup with 124gr Campro RN bullets in ALL my pistols and PCCs with 0 issues. I've run it through the chrono and the velocity is right within the specs. That's the best way to verify loads.

Titegroup has a very little play room due to small volumes, so 0.2gr error might be critical. For that matter, I have a secondary electronics scale to cross check once in a while as well as use check weights.

3.5gr will not cycle some of my guns, though.

Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I'm using. 124 Gn Campro RN. I'll check my beam scale for accuracy but my gun cycles just fine.

 

[OkayShooter]

Thanks for the advice. I've been using Bullseye for years but can't get it anywhere anymore. My supplier got some Titegtoup in so I thought I'd try it and was lucky to get it. I think all the powder is being sent to the U.S military for Ukraine and Israel.



My SP-01 is a Shadowmate. Gunsmith tuned from the factory. I haven't changed the stock springs but did get extra springs with the gun with NO WAY of determining the weight of them. I ordered a powder scale from Amazon (same as the RCBS). Here are some pictures of my gun.


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Thanks I ordered a digital powder scale on Amazon (Same as the RCBS)



I think SNAPPY is a good description! Like I said earlier, maybe just me?



Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I'm using. 124 Gn Campro RN. I'll check my beam scale for accuracy but my gun cycles just fine.

Main spring 13#, hammer 11#. Is light springs.

Considering I think the Shadow 1 is 16# main and 20# hammer.

 

[GMJim]

Main spring 13#, hammer 11#. Is light springs.

Thanks for the info. I have nothing to compare it to. Most of the people I know with Shadows are not familiar with spring weights and getting info on the subject has been a problem.

 

[OkayShooter]

Thanks for the info. I have nothing to compare it to. Most of the people I know with Shadows are not familiar with spring weights and getting info on the subject has been a problem.

That's why you can cycle 3.5grn loads, and it could give the impression of being more snappy as the slide is moving back faster.

 

[GMJim]

Makes perfect sense. I got some additional springs with the gun but there is no mention of them in the manual and no markings or colour on them to determine what they are?? I emailed CZ USA and even Czechoslovakia to ask what they were with no reply. They may be replacements for what it came with?

 

[armybuck041]

For what it’s worth, I find Titegroup is much better with the heavier projectiles like 147gr. For 124gr or 115gr, CFE Pistol seems to be a better powder.

 

[old303]

If you have two scales you're never quite certain unless they agree; three lets you determine which is out of sync and only one demands you have to go with what it says.

Behind a 124gr plated bullet, 4.0 to 4.1 grains Titegroup is very standard for making IPSC minor power factor, at a nominal middle-of-the-road velocity for 9mm.

Always good to weigh a bullet or two just to confirm they're what it says on the bag.

 

[lone ranger]

"I'm using a CZ SP-01 shadowmate and 124 grain plated round nose projectiles "

I had an sp01 shadow and it kicked like a mule with 124g
It really liked shooting the 115g. In Most guns you would never notice it. It also like a shorter bullet "cycled very well"
Great gun, but finicky about ammo. short and light ammo

It also shot "point of aim" with 115g

 

[GMJim]

If you have two scales you're never quite certain unless they agree; three lets you determine which is out of sync and only one demands you have to go with what it says.

Behind a 124gr plated bullet, 4.0 to 4.1 grains Titegroup is very standard for making IPSC minor power factor, at a nominal middle-of-the-road velocity for 9mm.

Always good to weigh a bullet or two just to confirm they're what it says on the bag.

Good idea and I've done that to check the scale as well. I used to use Berry's but can't get it here any more so I've been using Campro. They're pretty close in weight but not enough to have confidence weighing as little as 3.5 grns.

"I'm using a CZ SP-01 shadowmate and 124 grain plated round nose projectiles "

I had an sp01 shadow and it kicked like a mule with 124g
It really liked shooting the 115g. In Most guns you would never notice it. It also like a shorter bullet "cycled very well"
Great gun, but finicky about ammo. short and light ammo

It also shot "point of aim" with 115g

Reason I'm using 124 grn is because other members of my club suggested it. I've been thinking of trying a lighter bullet but they're only available 1000 at a time and I'm a little reluctant to take the leap. I guess the only way to find out is to try it or buy a box of factory 115 grn and see how it goes?

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I've been shooting hand guns since 1977 but never really got into the science of springs and load recipies until I bought this gun. I'm retired now but I don't go to the range often enough to consume powder, and projectiles quick enough to make adjustments. I'll be trying some 115's next time I get a chance.

 

[OkayShooter]

"I'm using a CZ SP-01 shadowmate and 124 grain plated round nose projectiles "

I had an sp01 shadow and it kicked like a mule with 124g
It really liked shooting the 115g. In Most guns you would never notice it. It also like a shorter bullet "cycled very well"
Great gun, but finicky about ammo. short and light ammo

It also shot "point of aim" with 115g

I never found they kicked. Even the SP01 with the flat wire spring. Which my Shadow shoots much smoother with the 16#. Always found got more snap with 115grn than 124s. As you normally need more powder to push lighter bullets, than with heavier.

 

[toxic]

FWIW I have been running 3.8 grains of Titegroup with 124 grain plated bullets for longer than I can remember (10 years?). Loaded a bit short to be reliable, particularly in my early model Shadow 1. This load consistently makes power factor for IPSC production. I'm running the lightest springs in both guns.

 

[old303]

Different guns run best on rounds tuned to different corners of the 9mm spectrum. I had a pistol that really hated feeding 147s, but a fairly standard 124 load has always Just Worked in what I owned so I haven't strayed from that formula, and am probably remiss in not trying a 115 load. Powder load and cartridge length are other variables to play with.

 

[GMJim]

3.5gr of Titegroup under a 124gr plated bullet is almost as light as it gets. Titegroup's a great powder. It's versatile, it meters very well (even volumetrically), and relatively cheap. Some people think it's too "snappy", and maybe that's what you're feeling, but I've never noticed/cared. You can try a different powder (HP-38/Win 231, Accurate #2, Unique etc.) but I'm not sure if that's going to solve any of your problems. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from Vihtavuori, it's just overpriced internet hyped powder. To each their own, I guess.

P.S. I too own the FA digital scale (with a traditional balance type as a backup) and find that it's sufficient for loading pistol rounds. As OkayShooter stated above, many cheap(er) scales are accurate enough.

P.S.S. I'm going to sound like a broken record but...you should always determine your own max OAL. OAL's listed in manuals/data are useless. Make a long inert dummy round and continually shorten it until in plunks and spins in the barrel(s) you intend to use with that load. Every bullet/barrel combo is different and when you load a new bullet you should once again determine the max OAL.

I don't question that the plunk test isn't important but before I started reloading 9mm I tried many different manufacturers of 9mm factory loads and the OAL was ALL over the place from one brand to another and they all passed what is accepted as OK in my barrel and all fed just fine in my gun. I did notice that some brands left more powder burns on the exterior of the cases than others however. My initial question was about what I believe is heavy recoil with my reloads but now I'm thinking based on several of the comments and advice from the replies here that my gun has lighter springs than a standard SP-01 (if there is such a thing). Thanks everyone for all of the comments and suggestions. You have brought up things that I didn't consider and will learn more about 9mm reloading and my gun in particular going forward.

P.S I think most people would agree that CZ is a major manufacturer of very high quality guns but after paying nearly $2000 (8 years ago) for a pistol which included a bag of springs you would think it would include a mention of what the springs are for and their weights in the manual? If there are any ShadowMATE owners out there that has any insight on this I would appreciate any info you have.
Thanks everyone.
Jim

 

[OkayShooter]

Yes there are SP01 Tactical and a SP01 Shadow. SP01 Tactical is more for police/military.

The springs are probably the stock ones featured on the Shadow.

 

[4n2t0]

I don't question that the plunk test isn't important but before I started reloading 9mm I tried many different manufacturers of 9mm factory loads and the OAL was ALL over the place from one brand to another and they all passed what is accepted as OK in my barrel and all fed just fine in my gun. I did notice that some brands left more powder burns on the exterior of the cases than others however.

I'm not sure what this means, Jim. Factory ammo is loaded to different OAL's because of the different bullet profiles. Those factory OAL's have zero impact on determining your max OAL unless you are loading the exact same components, which you aren't. I only mentioned the plunk test because you indicated that you used the "recommended OAL". You shouldn't use any "recommended OAL", you should always determine your own max OAL, which is what the plunk test was designed to do. It doesn't mean that the "recommended OAL" won't work, it just means that you were lucky enough that it happened to work. From your reply, it doesn't seem like you understand the impact a bullet's profile has on OAL. The diagrams below might help.

I know this isn't the cause of the perceived "snappiness" of your load, I just wanted to provide some information you can use in the future. To be honest, since you loaded Bullseye previously, I can't really understand what changed. Bullseye and Titegroup are nearly identical when it comes to charge weight/performance. I load the exact same charge of both powders and get nearly identical chrono readings.

 

[GMJim]

I'm not sure what this means, Jim. Factory ammo is loaded to different OAL's because of the different bullet profiles. Those factory OAL's have zero impact on determining your max OAL unless you are loading the exact same components, which you aren't. I only mentioned the plunk test because you indicated that you used the "recommended OAL". You shouldn't use any "recommended OAL", you should always determine your own max OAL, which is what the plunk test was designed to do. It doesn't mean that the "recommended OAL" won't work, it just means that you were lucky enough that it happened to work. From your reply, it doesn't seem like you understand the impact a bullet's profile has on OAL. The diagrams below might help.

I know this isn't the cause of the perceived "snappiness" of your load, I just wanted to provide some information you can use in the future. To be honest, since you loaded Bullseye previously, I can't really understand what changed. Bullseye and Titegroup are nearly identical when it comes to charge weight/performance. I load the exact same charge of both powders and get nearly identical chrono readings.

I understand what you mean. I will adjust my OAL loads as you explained. I appreciate the help and advice!

 

[ChiliDawg]

I have not had much luck with digital scales. I didn’t find mine to have repeatable accuracy.

 

[cement head]

Hello all, been a while since my last post. I've been way too busy to go to the range until recently and have been testing out my 9mm loads target shooting. I'm using a CZ SP-01 shadowmate and 124 grain plated round nose projectiles with 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. I have a RCBS mechanical scale and believe it's accurate but my loads feel heavy, a little too heavy. The Nosler manual says Max. 4.3, most accurate 3.8 and 3.3 grains for a starter load using 124 grain JHP. I get good grouping so happy with that but the recoil seems too hot?? I will occasionally shoot .357 magnum and .44 magnum factory loads so not unacustom to recoil. Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks

I'm thinking three things . correct me if I'm wrong . first check your scale . second how is your recoil spring. third you haven't been to the range in sometime . not used to shooting . and as someone else said take a few factory rounds to judge what your home loads are recoiling like . when you use the mechanical scale do you just set it up and keep reloading ? sometimes it's a good idea to reset it then throw a load then weigh it in the scale to check if it's working correctly . plus not to sound creepy I'll blow on the scale to make sure it's moving freely and not dragging on it's self . sometimes they don't swing properly . did you buy the scale new or used ?

 

[jcpal]

Best powder for 9mm is ramshot. Silhouette

 

[PPCLI-Jim]

I've run TG exclusively in my 9mm, .40S&W, and .45 ACP. The only caliber I don't use it is .357 SIG.