9mm with lead Bullets and Titegroup-Updated

[Ganderite]

I have quite a few 9mm pistols. I have found that the DRG brand cast lead bullet of 135g Round Nose works well in all of them, and for most, better than the other weights.

I load this bullet with TiteGroup because I have a lot of it on hand and because for accuracy, it seems to work well. I load this combo at 3.0, 3.3, 3.6 and 3.9gr, and then note on each pistol what the preference is. Most prefer 3.3 or 3.6. If you are not into testing, I can recommend 3.5gr as a general purpose cheap and accurate load.

3.0 may look mild to you, but it still cycles every pistol I tried it in (over 20 different models). One of my 1911s shoots best with this load and it is the load I use with newbies. Very mild recoil.

Today I tested this powder and bullet for velocity in a 1911 (5”) and a M&P (4.3”). I also calculated the Power Factor. The velocity difference in barrel lengths was not as big as I expected.

M&P 9 (4.3”)
3.0gr 901fps & 121.6 PF
3.3gr 953fps & 128.6 PF
3.6gr 1027fps & 138.6 PF
3.9gr 1073fps & 145 PF

1911 (5.0”)
3.0gr 932fps & 125.8 PF
3.3gr 950fps & 128.2 PF
3.6gr 1060fps & 143 PF
3.9gr 1124fps & 151.7 PF

My TiteGroup test now includes some CamPro plated 147 bullets. I use these for night shoots by flashlight because the smoke from the DRG lead bullet lubricant makes it impossible to see the target.

And I included some 115gr MFS FMJ factory ammo, just because I had some. As before, the 5" barrel got a bit more velocity.


M&P 9 (4.3”)
147 plated 3.5g TG 933 fps & 137 PF
MFS 115g FMJ 1168fps & 134 PF

1911 (5.0”)
147 plated 3.5g TG 952 fps & 140 PF
MFS 115g FMJ 1246fps & 143 PF

 

[lejarretnoir]

That little bit of extra barrel seems to give more velocity.

I really need to to get some of the DRG 135grs. Where you buying these in bulk and are they in .356 diameter?

 

[paisley70]

Perfect. Copied, pasted and saved in my reloading files. I'll look into DRG brand 135 grain. Most of what I have is Titegroup and it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon. I like how you have posted the velocities because that makes all the difference until I purchase my own machine.

 

[nate18]

that seems pretty low. i load 4.0 grains of tite group with a 124 gr jacketed round nose.

 

[Ganderite]

that seems pretty low. i load 4.0 grains of Tite group with a 124 gr jacketed round nose.

Yes, it is low. Or, phrased another way, when I see other loads mentioned here, they all seem rather hot.

When I develop a load for a pistol, I shoot a wide spectrum of charges, from very mild to quite hot. Sometimes the mild load won't cycle the action. (Like 2.6gr in some pistols). I then note which powder charge gets the best accuracy. There is often a big difference between the best load and the others. Some pistols shoot most loads quite well. A few are terrible except for one load.

Once I have the accuracy load pegged for a gun, I look at the Power Factor. Since I used to shoot IDPA, I looked for an accurate load with a PF over 125. All but one of my 9mm pistols has a best load that is also higher then 125PF. So my loads are "hot" enough.

Why do you use 4.0 gr? Is that the most accurate load? Or is it a load you tried and it worked? If the latter, why not try milder and see if a milder load is noticeably more accurate.

This is my CZ 75B at 20 yards, two hands. 3.5gr TG / DRG 135LRN

 

[Ganderite]

That little bit of extra barrel seems to give more velocity.

I really need to to get some of the DRG 135grs. Where you buying these in bulk and are they in .356 diameter?

Yes, they are 356.

I buy them in Guelph from the guy that makes them. About $32/500 if I recall. There are Ontario dealers that carry them.

Wolf also sells commercial reloads with a similar bullet. They work very well, too.

 

[lejarretnoir]

Thanks Ganderite, maybe I should try Wolf's 135grs. They are local to me.

 

[HIGHRPM]

Thanks for the testing, greatly appreciated !

 

[BCRider]

that seems pretty low. i load 4.0 grains of tite group with a 124 gr jacketed round nose.

Lead tends to shoot faster than jacketed. So I'm not surprised that you find you need up to 4gns for jacketed.

Also are you shooting for power factor for IPSC or IDPA or are you plinking with your loads? I found that when I loaded my 9's for around a 130 PF to use for IPSC that it was noticeably softer than factory 9mm. So if you're loading to match factory ammo then 4gns might even be on the edge or a touch lighter than factory ammo.

 

[VICIOUS]

Jacket and lead bullets require different amounts of powder, and you need to look in the loading book for the type of bullet you have and not just weight of grains of the bullet. Also cartage overall length is critical with small high pressure cartridges.
Size matters!

 

[Colin]

that seems pretty low. i load 4.0 grains of tite group with a 124 gr jacketed round nose.

Same here, works well in all my guns

 

[kg]

Ganderite, what do these DRG bullets look like? Are they hard cast, swaged, hard lubed...?

I think the little 9 is very sensitive to about everything: lead and lube hardness, on top of OAL as already mentioned, etc...

Some time ago I gave the 3.3gr load to a guy who chronoed it over 1000fps, with 124gr bullets from a Lyman mold, which surprised me a lot.

 

[BCRider]

On 9mm a little change in OAL does matter. One of my tests was to load up sets of ammo at 1.08, 1.1 and 1.12 to see how it affected my CZ Shadow for feeding and chambering. I was also chronoing these loads. I noticed a roughly 50fps difference between each batch of test rounds. All being loaded with the same bullet and same charge. The powder and bullets are long ago forgotten but the speed difference is obviously related to the pressure difference caused by the change in internal volume.

 

[HIGHRPM]

SIZE MATTERS ?? Dam, same thing my wife tells me !!

Jacket and lead bullets require different amounts of powder, and you need to look in the loading book for the type of bullet you have and not just weight of grains of the bullet. Also cartage overall length is critical with small high pressure cartridges.
Size matters!

 

[Paatz]

On 9mm a little change in OAL does matter. One of my tests was to load up sets of ammo at 1.08, 1.1 and 1.12 to see how it affected my CZ Shadow for feeding and chambering. I was also chronoing these loads. I noticed a roughly 50fps difference between each batch of test rounds. All being loaded with the same bullet and same charge. The powder and bullets are long ago forgotten but the speed difference is obviously related to the pressure difference caused by the change in internal volume.

What about accuracy?
Who cares about speed if the bullets are going all over the place?

 

[Chuckbuster]

Maybe it's time to revisit titegroup in my own pistols; I haven't used it in a few years as a load that I was toying with failed to cycle my 659. I no longer have that gun, so perhaps I should give it a go with my current crop.

 

[Ganderite]

Ganderite, what do these DRG bullets look like? Are they hard cast, swaged, hard lubed...?

I think the little 9 is very sensitive to about everything: lead and lube hardness, on top of OAL as already mentioned, etc...

Some time ago I gave the 3.3gr load to a guy who chronoed it over 1000fps, with 124gr bullets from a Lyman mold, which surprised me a lot.

They are hard cast, swaged and hard lubed? And cheap. The 1000 fps with 3.3gr sounds about right. I am getting just under that with the 135 gr bullet.

If you want to try them I suggest loading 3.3, 3.6, 3.9 and 4.2 to see which groups the best. My OAL is 1.115". The CZ has a fairly short throat.

 

[BCRider]

What about accuracy?
Who cares about speed if the bullets are going all over the place?

It wasn't enough to matter. All three test batches shot just fine for accuracy.

But keep in mind that the goal was to make them up for IPSC shooting. So if there was something like a 1/4 inch difference in group size between the three OAL groups I wasn't looking for it and didn't notice it. At the time I'd have been shooting my groups at 12 yards and getting consistent 1.25 to 1.75 inch groups from slow aimed fire but without any emphasis on extreme accuracy such as a pure bullseye shooter would use.

Speaking of accuracy I did buy and load up a batch of 125gn cast lead bullets for my CZ. They were the 125LRN from Bullet Barn if anyone cares. These cast bullets did shoot noticeably tighter and tidier groups from my Shadow. Like a 1/2 inch smaller and more rounded at15 yards than the jacketed bullets I had used up to then.

I didn't carry on with it because the cast bullets went up in price shortly after that to where they were $10/k more to buy then the Berry plated bullets that became available by the next time I needed bullets.

 

[stevebc]

Speaking of accuracy I did buy and load up a batch of 125gn cast lead bullets for my CZ. They were the 125LRN from Bullet Barn if anyone cares. These cast bullets did shoot noticeably tighter and tidier groups from my Shadow. Like a 1/2 inch smaller and more rounded at15 yards than the jacketed bullets I had used up to then.

I care! Mostly because I'm not impressed with the accuracy I'm getting from the Berry's 124g, so I've been looking at the BB 125gr rounds. I think I'll try a box when I see them at the Kamloops gun show.

 

[fdc]

Are you sure that the DRGs are 135 grain? I buy from FM Shooting sports and pick up my components. I've never seen cast lead 135 grain. If they exist I'd like to try them.