9x19mm - Sooty brass

I

IzzyTheGreat

Regular
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Location
SE Alberta
I recently started reloading just this past December, and have been enjoying myself quite a lot. At this point my first # of powder is approaching empty so I'd estimate I've reloaded somewhere between 1200-1400 rounds of 9mm on my Lee Turret at this point. Something I've noticed is that lots of my fired cases are quite sooty, examining them I don't see any obvious pressure signs. Please see the attached imgur album for your own viewing pleasure.

https://imgur.com/a/knjArSf

My research I've done indicates that it could be one of several causes

A) This powder may just be inherently sooty
I'm using CFE Pistol, anybody care to share how clean it runs in their guns?

B) My load may be too "light", the low pressure causing the cases to not completely seal, thereby causing some gas blow-by onto the cases.
I'll post my load data below, feel free to point out anywhere that may be causing this

C) May also possibly be due to an insufficient crimp, essentially the projectile leaves the case before it fully expands creating gas blow-by onto the case.
I'm using a Lee 3-die set, if I'm not mistaken the seating die will put a taper crimp on the case? If I remember the manual correctly they stated a taper crimp was usually sufficient for autoloading pistols.

Here's my load data; They are only used in my CZ P-09 w/ 4.5" bbl, at least until I get my next 9mm :)

Mixed Brass (1F or 2F)
Winchester WSP
4.9gn CFE Pistol (From a Lee Auto-drum, so there is probably a +/- .1gn variance)
124gr Campro FCP-RN, 1.120" OAL

I'm hoping it is just blow-by and nothing to be too concerned about, as I quite like the load I have worked up. I'm not opposed to increasing the charge slightly either though as the sooty cases mean I have to put less cases in my ultrasonic cleaner to get the results I'm looking for.

Thanks in advance,

Izzy
 
The sooty cases are caused by low pressure, at the Hodgdon's reloading center your load is their start load. Either increase your load or change powders.

I use Tight Group and 231 in my 9mm practice loads, it is faster burning and cleaner than the load you are using.

Any time you get soot on a rifle or pistol case like yours the chamber pressure is too low for a complete burn.


9 MM Pistol Powders

http://www.natoreloading.com/9mm/
 
A) Many powders are sooty on the low end, more so for slow(er) powders like CFE.

B) Being the book minimum your load is indeed light. The catch 22 being that a max load will burn more efficiently but introduce more recoil. I like light loads so I just clean the gun every so often. I understand that you're new but the minimum charge isn't the only charge you should be willing to explore. Many loads become more accurate with increased velocity and minimum charges can often times cause malfunctions. Test the entire charge window, it's a good learning experience.

C) Revolver rounds aside, you shouldn't really apply all that much crimp to 9mm rounds. The case mouth measurement should be approximately .377 - .379.
 
Last edited:
bigedp51 said:
The sooty cases are caused by low pressure, at the Hodgdon's reloading center your load is their start load. Either increase your load or change powders.

I use Tight Group and 231 in my 9mm practice loads, it is faster burning and cleaner than the load you are using.

Any time you get soot on a rifle or pistol case like yours the chamber pressure is too low for a complete burn.


9 MM Pistol Powders

http://www.natoreloading.com/9mm/
Click to expand...


A) Many powders are sooty on the low end, more so for slow(er) powders like CFE.

B) Being the book minimum your load is indeed light. The catch 22 being that a max load will burn more efficiently but introduce more recoil. I like light loads so I just clean the gun every so often. I understand that you're new but the minimum charge isn't the only charge you should be willing to explore. Many loads become more accurate with increased velocity and minimum charges can often times cause malfunctions. Test the entire charge window, it's a good learning experience.

C) Revolver rounds aside, you shouldn't really apply all that much crimp to 9mm rounds. The case mouth measurement should be approximately .377 - .379.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information bigedp51 & 4n2t0,

I'm actually familiar with the "natoreloading" source linked, I used their analysis of 9mm to decide on the next powder I'm going to try, which is Ramshot True Blue.

I will work up a few loads tonight with different charge weights and test them to see what my gun likes best, the reason I selected that load was not due to an abundance of caution but rather that it was the "middle ground" load using the manufacturer Campro's supplied data. I did a test batch of 50 initially with this load and got good accuracy and no failures to cycle, that was good enough for me then but now that I'm starting to get more advanced I would like to reduce the case sooting to make case cleaning & prep easier.

https://www.campro.ca/images/-9MM.124.RN.pdf

After reviewing my Lee Manual I see that 4.9gn is indeed the starting load for a 124gr plated bullet, I have a feeling the Campro load data is on the conservative side considering the loads other reputable sources are providing. I'll try to remember to record my results and post them here in an update.
 
I should have checked the CamPro Data myself (duh) but I instinctively went to Hodgdon's website. Regardless, you're doing the right things and now it's just a matter of small compromises. Do you accept a tad more recoil for a cleaner burn? What happens to accuracy? Better? Worse? Through testing you'll eventually find a load that has all the "right" compromises.

Cheers!

P.S. A chrono is awful handy.

P.P.S. True Blue's awesome but again a slow burner. It flows like water and you'll be able to achieve some good velocity. If laser beams are what you seek then you're on the right path. If not, go with something a lot faster like Titegroup or HP-38/W231.
 
Last edited:
I like Vihtavuori N320 in 9 mm. It is fast, clean burning, and bulky: a double charge is impossible to miss, unlike many higher density powders, e.g. Titegroup
 
I was a bit shocked by Campro load data for that bullet and CFE pistol. 4.6-5.1 gr. Everyone else seems to start near where Campro stops. Because of this I load 5.1 and don't care if it actually throws 5, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 :)

But anyone know why Campro data is like it is?
 
I just worked up a load 2 weeks ago. 5.0 grains of CFE pistol, 124gr Campro FCP-RN, but a shorter OAL. Shoots great, still a bit sooty. Don't mind too much, I did not have my chrono at the range to test speed, but think it will take more, it feels similar to my other 4.8 grain Unique load. I may test a slightly heavier crimp and charge in the spring to see how the soot and accuracy changes, if at all. 1/4 turn of the Factory crimp die with Cam Pro, I used to use 1/2 turn with Zero bullets. I like the CFE powder, It meters well too for me. My favourite feel in the 9mm powder is Unique. Liked it better than N320.

Gatehouse, I was under the impression that Cam Pro's jacket was a bit on the soft side, maybe that is why its low??????
 
I assumed it was because of the plated bullet vs jacketed. Maybe they don't shoot well at higher charges, but would it become a pressure issue? I don't really think so but don't know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom