yes they added some alloy and at first used the tools from valmet factory. even heavier i prefer the original 412/412s.
A canoe/survival gun project
- Thread starter GrahamSavage99
- Start date
yes they added some alloy and at first used the tools from valmet factory. even heavier i prefer the original 412/412s.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
This is what I did. In the bush here, I like to go solo rides on my side-by-side - it will die or I will get stuck - then walk home through bush. Too many things here to be doing that unarmed, I think. So, my "get me home gun" is NOT for hunting - idea is for defence at short range - like less than 50 yards. Cow moose with calf, Momma black bear with cubs, coyotes, timber wolves, cougar (puma), etc. I chose a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk.1, not the Mk.1*. Cut that barrel to 18.5". Shortened the fore end and installed a barrel mounted front sling eye. Installed a Bishop brand butt stock with Monte Carlo and rear sling eye. Installed a Weaver K3-1 scope with heavy tapered post and thin cross wire using Parker Hale #20 and #21 scope bases and PH RALS.3 rings- the battle sight was removed from the A21 base for the scope to sit lower - there is no front sight on the barrel. Is in a standard, short, zipper-closed gun case when on the side-by-side, with a small cordura case on outside for the ten round magazine - 180 grain Round Nose - and a rolled up carry strap. I came into some Woodleigh .312" 215 grain RN SP Weldcore that might get loaded up for that one, if I ever get around to working a load up for it.
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You have good taste.
I built a similar one, but installed a set of sights I had lying around, a scope seemed superfluous and just more weight and bulk.Grizz
I have done many long (30 to 45 days) solo canoe expeditions in the subarctic and arctic barrenlands, carrying a bear protection firearm. Barren ground grizzlies were my primary concern, but at the southern edge of treeline black bears are included.
My bear protection firearm for all these canoe trips was a 12 gauge pump action: Remington 870 Wingmaster with a "deer" barrel. My preference (and what I recommend for bear defense) is for a firearm with a full stock and iron sights with long enough barrel for sighting down and accurate shot placement. I can work the pump action and keep the shotgun on my shoulder and maintain my sight picture for the follow up shots, manage recoil, and swing the barrel on a possibly a moving target.
However it is a compromise for weight, bulk and packability over some of the lighter and more compact options already posted above. Its all tradeoffs, there is no one perfect system. Whatever you chose, you should be able to handle and use it with muscle memory, in poor light. See the photos below for how I packed it in the canoe.
It has a RemChoke system, and I use the smooth bore choke because I carry cracker shells, rubber slugs, and rifled slugs. If I was to leave behind the crackers and rubber slugs, I might change to the rifled choke and carry sabot slugs only, and use separate pen-launched bangers.
Camo shotgun case is floating, and its closed-cell foam floatation provides padding for impact protection. The Kolpin waterproof drybag with the roll-down seal is sized generously to fit over a floating shotgun case with no optic.
Photo below shows how I pack it in my fully loaded expedition canoe, spray deck peeled back. With that expedition load for over a month of supplies, it has to pack on top of the packs and 60L barrels. The sling on the Kolpin bag has a quick hook release on each end, and the sling is secured under pack straps and re-hooked, and the packs are tied into the canoe and cinched downwards on anchors in the hull, so the shotgun will stay with the gear if I tip over in rapids.
The solo spray deck (from Cooke Custom Sewing) was custom made-to-measure for that canoe, and has the elastic pleated expansion section in the middle to be able to fit up and over the packs and gear. You can see how far the packs and barrels sit above the gunwales, so this designed capacity for the spray deck is essential for the fit if you pack your long gun over top of the packs.
Photo below shows the boat packed and ready for some big water paddling (location: MacKay Lake, NWT, upper Lockhart River system).
Canoe trips in the Barrens are also daily hiking trip opportunities. Its fabulous hiking! Photo below shows yours truly with my shotgun on a day hike in the Barrens.
Bumping into grizzlies in the neighborhood is going to happen sooner or later if you spend enough time in the Barrens. I have had several encounters, all good. But a few times I have used my shotgun to make a big boom into the air to scare a few bears away that were close (non predatory from what I could determine, just passing through). Food management skills for packing, (everything dry, nothing aromatic, never bring bacon!), and for handling food in camp to minimize food odors, and not touching the food barrels when hands have food smells, etc., are essential practices to avoid bad bear issues. But there are no guarantees, so being armed is a good thing.
My bear protection firearm for all these canoe trips was a 12 gauge pump action: Remington 870 Wingmaster with a "deer" barrel. My preference (and what I recommend for bear defense) is for a firearm with a full stock and iron sights with long enough barrel for sighting down and accurate shot placement. I can work the pump action and keep the shotgun on my shoulder and maintain my sight picture for the follow up shots, manage recoil, and swing the barrel on a possibly a moving target.
However it is a compromise for weight, bulk and packability over some of the lighter and more compact options already posted above. Its all tradeoffs, there is no one perfect system. Whatever you chose, you should be able to handle and use it with muscle memory, in poor light. See the photos below for how I packed it in the canoe.
It has a RemChoke system, and I use the smooth bore choke because I carry cracker shells, rubber slugs, and rifled slugs. If I was to leave behind the crackers and rubber slugs, I might change to the rifled choke and carry sabot slugs only, and use separate pen-launched bangers.
Camo shotgun case is floating, and its closed-cell foam floatation provides padding for impact protection. The Kolpin waterproof drybag with the roll-down seal is sized generously to fit over a floating shotgun case with no optic.
Photo below shows how I pack it in my fully loaded expedition canoe, spray deck peeled back. With that expedition load for over a month of supplies, it has to pack on top of the packs and 60L barrels. The sling on the Kolpin bag has a quick hook release on each end, and the sling is secured under pack straps and re-hooked, and the packs are tied into the canoe and cinched downwards on anchors in the hull, so the shotgun will stay with the gear if I tip over in rapids.
The solo spray deck (from Cooke Custom Sewing) was custom made-to-measure for that canoe, and has the elastic pleated expansion section in the middle to be able to fit up and over the packs and gear. You can see how far the packs and barrels sit above the gunwales, so this designed capacity for the spray deck is essential for the fit if you pack your long gun over top of the packs.
Photo below shows the boat packed and ready for some big water paddling (location: MacKay Lake, NWT, upper Lockhart River system).
Canoe trips in the Barrens are also daily hiking trip opportunities. Its fabulous hiking! Photo below shows yours truly with my shotgun on a day hike in the Barrens.
Bumping into grizzlies in the neighborhood is going to happen sooner or later if you spend enough time in the Barrens. I have had several encounters, all good. But a few times I have used my shotgun to make a big boom into the air to scare a few bears away that were close (non predatory from what I could determine, just passing through). Food management skills for packing, (everything dry, nothing aromatic, never bring bacon!), and for handling food in camp to minimize food odors, and not touching the food barrels when hands have food smells, etc., are essential practices to avoid bad bear issues. But there are no guarantees, so being armed is a good thing.
Attachments
A .357 or .44mag Ranchand, bungie single point sling, Pearson's no drill rail and red dot.... I would go with a smaller red dot then the one in the picture and put a small pistol olight laser light combo on the rail in front of the micro red dot.
The .357's are easy to handle for anyone, .44mag not as easy for most old ladies and kids, but not to bad to shoot with a bit of practice and using a good push-pull hold techinque using the sling for support.
The only other thing to do at some point for size redicution would be to re-configure the big a s s loop on the lever to a more streamlined profile by cutting, bending and welding.
The .357's are easy to handle for anyone, .44mag not as easy for most old ladies and kids, but not to bad to shoot with a bit of practice and using a good push-pull hold techinque using the sling for support.
The only other thing to do at some point for size redicution would be to re-configure the big a s s loop on the lever to a more streamlined profile by cutting, bending and welding.
I went with a Marine 12ga 870 Tac-14 for canoeing .... stored in a closed-cell foam scabbard and then in a waterproof drybag with the roll-down seal.
It is a very compact package ... and like that the gun is well protected from the elements .... but it is still easily and quickly accessible if needed. Just open the drybag ... and pull out the gun from the scabbard. This can be done in a couple of seconds ....
And once you have learned how to use a birds-head shotgun with low recoil slugs .... it is plenty accurate for close up work and hunting out to 50 meters. And there are low recoil slugs that penetrate very well ....
Gun is 5.6 lbs ...
Link
It is a very compact package ... and like that the gun is well protected from the elements .... but it is still easily and quickly accessible if needed. Just open the drybag ... and pull out the gun from the scabbard. This can be done in a couple of seconds ....
And once you have learned how to use a birds-head shotgun with low recoil slugs .... it is plenty accurate for close up work and hunting out to 50 meters. And there are low recoil slugs that penetrate very well ....
Gun is 5.6 lbs ...
Link
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I went with a Marine 12ga 870 Tac-14 for canoeing .... stored in a closed-cell foam scabbard and then in a waterproof drybag with the roll-down seal.
It is a very compact package ... and like that the gun is well protected from the elements .... but it is still easily and quickly accessible if needed. Just open the drybag ... and pull out the gun from the scabbard. This can be done in a couple of seconds ....
And once you have learned how to use a birds-head shotgun with low recoil slugs .... it is plenty accurate for close up work and hunting out to 50 meters. And there are low recoil slugs that penetrate very well ....
Gun is 5.6 lbs ...
Link
most of the time i do not like the small handle but seems you did great with that tool.
Exactly. A Lee Enfield will work just fine wet or dirty.
It has plenty of power to handle anything in North America and plenty of capacity if you stay with the 10 round issued magazine.
Tipping the canoe and losing it in the rapids is going to put you out 4-500 dollars.
Compared to everything else you'll likely lose its a drop in the bucket.
Dings and scratches just addd to it's character and history.
The simple 2 position battle sight on the No.4 is as fast at close range as any high priced optic you could choose.
Factory or handloaded 303 is pretty much waterproof where as water is a shotshell's worst enemy.
GrahamSavage99
New member
- Location
- Saskatchewan
What are you using for a soft side case? Curious to explore what others are using. Already seen a few options here that sound interesting.
Graham
Graham
nomar gun case in the canoe for us.
GrahamSavage99
New member
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Thanks for the input folks, some great opinions and ideas.
Should have said I’m a lefty. Left hand and left eye dominant, so levers and pumps are good, but bolts have to be left side for me.
Definitely an Enfield in 303 British would be perfect for my application, except that the bolt is on the wrong side.
I do have a 12 guage 870, parkerized and plastic hardware that I got cheap and could stand the abuse(or I wouldn’t care to abuse). But it would need a shorter barrel than the 28” that’s on it. I’m just not really a shotgun guy, haven’t used it much. So not “adrenaline proof” with that gun. The 99 though is very familiar.
I think I’m going to go the modified stock route for my 99 and work on it over winter. But keep my eye out for a suitable gun that could be used/abused without a case, in an appropriate configuration.
Keep the ideas opinions coming if you have other pop up.
Should have said I’m a lefty. Left hand and left eye dominant, so levers and pumps are good, but bolts have to be left side for me.
Definitely an Enfield in 303 British would be perfect for my application, except that the bolt is on the wrong side.
I do have a 12 guage 870, parkerized and plastic hardware that I got cheap and could stand the abuse(or I wouldn’t care to abuse). But it would need a shorter barrel than the 28” that’s on it. I’m just not really a shotgun guy, haven’t used it much. So not “adrenaline proof” with that gun. The 99 though is very familiar.
I think I’m going to go the modified stock route for my 99 and work on it over winter. But keep my eye out for a suitable gun that could be used/abused without a case, in an appropriate configuration.
Keep the ideas opinions coming if you have other pop up.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Graham - for what you have been describing, maybe think "battle rifle" - not hunting rifle. You want the thing to go "bang" when you need it to - no excuses about trigger adjustment, too wet, iced up, scope mounts loose, etc. And that requires a minimal amount of periodic maintenance, to keep it operating. Forget what you might hear about fine accuracy, high end looks, latest "improvements" - I think you probably want something that works - every time, all the time. Based on my limited encounters in the bush - you get maybe time for one shot - if you have to fumble to get the thing out of a case or to assemble it to fire, it will be too late - if you have time for those things, you are experiencing a "sighting", not a "threat" that needs stopping.
Interesting reading here. I’ve been a lifelong backwoods hiker and paddler and have had many (mainly) black bear encounters. My research has pointed to a pump action 12 ga shotgun loaded with 1 oz slugs as my tripping gun. I believe a full stock, despite it adding size to the gun, is better than any 12 ga gun with a pistol grip. Accurate follow up shots are critical in emergency situations, and despite being fit and well practiced with firearms I just can’t see myself managing any accuracy with a pistol grip.
After many years of packing a bear gun, two years ago I had to actually reach for it in the dead of night while boat camping with my wife and daughter deep in crown land. Bear and trusty collie were at it full tilt right beside the tent, and I must say emerging head first into it from a low tent is not ideal. Everything worked out just fine for all of us, bear included. My 14” barreled Turkish 870 clone felt completely natural and intuitive, I was on target instantly with finger on the trigger despite having a poor quality headlamp on.
After that trip I purchased 3 high intensity headlamps. Unstable footing with bare feet in absolute darkness with deafening animal noises is stressor enough without having to manage the recoil of a shotgun with a pistol grip I figure. Also, my intention generally has been to fire a warning shot near the target if possible, so being right on target after that first shot is critical.
Of course this is just my opinion regarding one version of a solution, for what it’s worth. Whatever gun you choose, practice with it a couple of times a year.
After many years of packing a bear gun, two years ago I had to actually reach for it in the dead of night while boat camping with my wife and daughter deep in crown land. Bear and trusty collie were at it full tilt right beside the tent, and I must say emerging head first into it from a low tent is not ideal. Everything worked out just fine for all of us, bear included. My 14” barreled Turkish 870 clone felt completely natural and intuitive, I was on target instantly with finger on the trigger despite having a poor quality headlamp on.
After that trip I purchased 3 high intensity headlamps. Unstable footing with bare feet in absolute darkness with deafening animal noises is stressor enough without having to manage the recoil of a shotgun with a pistol grip I figure. Also, my intention generally has been to fire a warning shot near the target if possible, so being right on target after that first shot is critical.
Of course this is just my opinion regarding one version of a solution, for what it’s worth. Whatever gun you choose, practice with it a couple of times a year.
if you re left handed it might be harder than you think to use a no4 ... but there is some left hand actions available on the market.
As a fellow "canoeing in Saskatchewan" guy I like to bring along a Mossberg Shockwave. I used to bring along a takedown BLR but river mud and a rifle known for its temperamental gear mechanism didn't make me too happy. The 12ga is lighter and more compact. I can have it slung over a shoulder on a portage trail and not regret walking back and forth with it. I figure it's easy to find a stick to clean out the short barrel unlike a rifle. (Not a lot of 30 caliber sticks in Saskatchewan...) It will do the trick to scare a black bear or moose away. I suppose I could use it for grouse if I needed but I'm more likely to tuck into my emergency granola bars if things really go sideways.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
A 590 A1 14" with buttstock would work best for me.
https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-class-iii-pump-action-6-shot-51689.html
https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-class-iii-pump-action-6-shot-51689.html
buck knife
CGN Regular
- Location
- Golden forest
Model 94 30/30 winchester would be a great choice,.44 mag lever gun would be nice also.
that round abs tube has a lot of mt space in when a single rifle is stored, so unless it doubls as a fishing rod/tripod/whatever holder, I'd say no
A takedown BLR may fit in the same dia in a shorter 24" length though
My beat up blaster is a savage 30-30/20 ga, I like the versatility and for me 2 shots is enough, easy to clean the mud out too
I made a scabbard out of closed-cell neoprene, with carry straps
A takedown BLR may fit in the same dia in a shorter 24" length though
My beat up blaster is a savage 30-30/20 ga, I like the versatility and for me 2 shots is enough, easy to clean the mud out too
I made a scabbard out of closed-cell neoprene, with carry straps
