A Few Questions...

Slug870

Slug870

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Hey All,

I am in the process of having my M14 "done up" (cut down, new stock etc.) and I am wondering about a couple of options. Therefore I am looking to the M14 gurus on this forum to help me out.

First off, the trigger group. Is it worth it to replace the existing Norc trigger group with a USGI trigger group? What advantages/gains are there in this swap?

Second, barrel length. I am having my barrel cut down and I was wondering if there have been any reported differences with accuracy/performance in the shorter barrels? (Mine is being cut to 18.75")

Lastly, can anyone confirm that I will have to replace the guts of my Norc bolt when I mount an ARMS 18 scope mount in order to prevent repeated jamming? If so, does M14Doctor offer these "replacement guts"?

Thank you in advance for any and all help. :cheers:
 
I've got an ARMs 18 on my 07 and I've never had a problem with it jamming. Shot it quite a bit, and I like the mount. It will keep them in about 1 1/2" all day. Had my Poly shortened by the boys at Corlanes. I can't seem to get it under about 3" consistently, but I've got a different mount on it and I haven't played with it as much. I don't believe that shotening caused this, I just need to play with it some more (unitize etc.) and it should get down to where my 07 is. Shortening will however drop your velocity somewhat (so many fps per inch shortened, although I can't tell you the exact number) I've read other posts about rifles seeming to short-stroke and not feed properly when shortened, but I have never experienced this with mine.
 
Slug870 said:
Hey All,

I am in the process of having my M14 "done up" (cut down, new stock etc.) and I am wondering about a couple of options. Therefore I am looking to the M14 gurus on this forum to help me out.

First off, the trigger group. Is it worth it to replace the existing Norc trigger group with a USGI trigger group? What advantages/gains are there in this swap?

Second, barrel length. I am having my barrel cut down and I was wondering if there have been any reported differences with accuracy/performance in the shorter barrels? (Mine is being cut to 18.75")

Lastly, can anyone confirm that I will have to replace the guts of my Norc bolt when I mount an ARMS 18 scope mount in order to prevent repeated jamming? If so, does M14Doctor offer these "replacement guts"?

Thank you in advance for any and all help. :cheers:
Click to expand...

I can try to help a little, but like all free advice... well, you get the idea.

1) No, you don't "need" a USGI trigger group. A GI group is probably beter than what you have, but not always. Depends what your existing group is like - some Chinese ones are better than others. M14Doc has said he likes the Norc ones more than the Polys due to hardness. A halfway alternative is to either get your existing group match tuned, or to replace the hammer, trigger/sear and pins as well as the hammer spring with USGI M1 parts. Marstar has these in stock.

2) Unless you shoot past 300 yards a lot, you likely will see no difference.

3) If you use the ARMS mount, the existing springs will either need to be trimmed to USGI length or replaced with USGI springs. This will alter the ejection angle to what it should be for the ARMS mount. You can re-use the ejector and extractor - they are usually fine.
 
well.......

as for trigger groups....... from the feedback i am getting from clients getting my "civillian match" trigger job, keeping parts stock and only replacing out of spec parts with serviceable chinese, there is no need to rush out and G.I. ize your trigger group.
IF you are competing or throwing a lot of rounds down range on a frequent basis..... maybe an upgrade is a not so bad idea...... but for 90% of us...... the chinese trigger groups are just fine and dandy....... in other words...... save your money and buy more ammo :D

The infamous ARMS 18 jamming issue......
what is at play here is simply the ejection profile of your rifle.
Not all rifles have an issue so JUST because you have an arms 18..... does NOT mean your rifle WILL jam.
My recommendation is this, install your arms 18 and go shoot it...... try standard rounds ie: 147/150 gr...... then try some heavier loads, ie :165/168 gr and see what happens.
if you get a jam ie: ejected case falls back in chamber, OR more commonly, ejected case gets trapped between the closing oprod and the mount, right at the receiver ring.

IF your particular rifle exhibits this problem....... GENERALLY it is solved by trimming your bolts extractor (2 coils on most) and ejector spring(3 coils on most). This has solved the issue on EVERY rifle I have personally owned or worked on.
NO NEED to upgrade your springs
I have offerd the bolt spring trimming service for those who can not disassemble thier bolt..... at a nominal charge of 40.00 return shipping included. If folks want to take advantage of this service, when i open up again in June, you can send your bolts in.

18.5 or 18.75" barrels......... we are talking about velocity loss as being the major controlling factor . AND how well your gunsmith finishes the crown on the chrome lined bore of your chinese barrel. For the most part, the chinese barrels are excellent and most guns can be made to shoot VERY well. So, crown and velocity loss........ well velocity loss has been discussed and you can assume a minimum 100 plus foot per second velocity loss from the 22 inch barrel to the 18.75" barrel. Overall I would say "accuracy wise" there is really no difference other than possibly the groups will begin to open up out past 300 thru 600 yards. To be honest i do not get much range time past 225meters but I aim to change that very soon :D
also I have not personally chronographed any 18.75" accurized rifles side by side with 22" barrelled accurized rifles....... so I am only suggesting what is commonly accepted for velocity loss with the .308 .

We test fired 2 18.5" / 18.75" barrelled accurized rifles this past friday, one being a chinese rifle, stock parts, 18.75" with brake...... consistantly hitting an 8" plate at 225 meters, we did not fire it for groups on paper past 50 yards .
2nd rifle a LRB m14sa , 18.5" medium contour criterion/LRB barrel , shoots as accurate as any 22" barrelled m14 i've seen and anhilialated the 8" 225 yard plate with precision consistancy hehehehe and 100 yards groups were exceptional

hope that helps ;)
 
Thank you all for your replies, and a special thanks to you Thomas for your very detailed post. I am going to take your advice and try the mount without bolt modifications to start, and if need be; I'll be sending my bolt in for the work (if I don't have the M14doctor bolt dis assembly tool by then;) ).

I am very excited to get my rifle back and try her out; and you can bet I'll be posting pictures and range results! Thanks again all!
 
Hungry said:
Slug870:

Bring on the range reports... Looking forward to seeing your results! :D
Click to expand...

You can bet I'll be posting range reports and pics the moment I get back from the range!

I don't expect to have her back for about 3-4 weeks, but I'll be looking at accurizing the "new and improved" baby when I get her back. I just have to get domestic niner to clear the funds for me to send the rifle to Thomas or hope that there will be an Atlantic Canada Hungry M14 clinic soon.... (hint, hint) ;)

Either way, its about time I put the effort into my M14 and finally get her up to par with some of the beauties on this forum. :cheers:
 
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