I put out a thread about using a my 458 Win to stop bear further down the page. I've come to the conclusion and done some grouping of 400 grain bullets - found that about 1700 fps gives the best group and is very comfortable to shoot. Most all of you suggested I get away from the Speer and go to a better constructed bullet. In this weight range I've narrowed it down to the Swift A-Frame. I know solids are used to take cape buffalo, smashing bone and going through thick hide but unless its standing still more than one shot is required. Has anyone used solids on bear?
A-Frame or Solids for grizzly ????
- Thread starter 358Scout
- Start date
Pudelpointer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lethbridge, Alberta
Solids are not allowed for hunting of bears in most (all?) of Canada. Stick with the A-Frames.
As noted...........solids are illegal to use on big game here. Even with cape buffalo they usually use a soft point such as the A-frame for the first shot followed by solids. The theory being the buff usually turns and runs and you are taking shots wanting maximum penetration from the rear forward towards the boiler room.
The A-frame is an excellent bullet choice. You don't really need to look any further. There are others of course but that is one of the best bullets out there for that sort of job.
The A-frame is an excellent bullet choice. You don't really need to look any further. There are others of course but that is one of the best bullets out there for that sort of job.
They will expand at 1700 but not a big wide mushroom. I am guessing but I would say the nose rupture would be about 50% of full expansion at 1700 fps based on what I have seen. I don't know why guys always buy .458's and then want to use them like a .45-70 so they don't kick as much but that seems to be the case most of the time.
The 350 A-frame is for .45-70's and should open faster. Still for grizzly I wouldn't hesitate to use the 400. I don't really care if it opens radically if I am busy trying to break bone and want deep penetration with close range shooting.
The 350 A-frame is for .45-70's and should open faster. Still for grizzly I wouldn't hesitate to use the 400. I don't really care if it opens radically if I am busy trying to break bone and want deep penetration with close range shooting.
Ah how times change...............yes I am sure what we are all referring to as 'solids' are non expanding bullets. X bullets are actually monometal bullets, as are the E-tips and GMX. They are expanding monometal bullets. Their are 'solids' that are monometal, true solids as they are an homogenous metal solid such as the ones put out by Barnes, Nosler, North Fork, and a number of others which typically are round nose or with a flat nose/meplat or the North Forks cup point and intended for thick skin dangerous game. As are the 'solids' of the older/conventional design, such as those from Hornady and Woodleigh, which have a lead core and a full metal jacket of steel or copper. Then their are the military version of the FMJ which is typically of a spitzer design.
It gets a bit confusing at times because of commonly used terms that have been used for many decades and perhaps do not accurately reflect the changes that have taken place in bullet design and composition.
Personally I think everyone gets a bit anal about some of this these days...........especially since the majority of shooters insist on referring to rifle cartridges as calibers.
It gets a bit confusing at times because of commonly used terms that have been used for many decades and perhaps do not accurately reflect the changes that have taken place in bullet design and composition.
Personally I think everyone gets a bit anal about some of this these days...........especially since the majority of shooters insist on referring to rifle cartridges as calibers.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
So you're essentially hunting with a 45-70. I'd be more inclined to go with a Nosler Partition. No need for a bullet that costs as much as a Swift if you're not going to make them work hard enough to justify the stout construction.
Nolser only makes a 500 grain Partition for .458 Mag. type cartridges and a 300 grain protected point for .45-70.
If you are going to drop down from the 400 grain to actual .45-70 bullets then there are lots to choose from including the Swift 350 A-frame and 350 from Hawk, etc.
Personally if it was me..........it is after all a .458 Win. Mag.......I'd stay with the 400 Swift A-frame and crank the velocity back up to around 2000 or 2100 fps. The kick will still be less than a full power 500 grain bullet. People also get way too carried away in the accuracy department. It is a dangerous game rifle and bullet combo. Assuming it is for bear at close range out to 100 yds, how tight of a group do you need in the real world?
If you are going to drop down from the 400 grain to actual .45-70 bullets then there are lots to choose from including the Swift 350 A-frame and 350 from Hawk, etc.
Personally if it was me..........it is after all a .458 Win. Mag.......I'd stay with the 400 Swift A-frame and crank the velocity back up to around 2000 or 2100 fps. The kick will still be less than a full power 500 grain bullet. People also get way too carried away in the accuracy department. It is a dangerous game rifle and bullet combo. Assuming it is for bear at close range out to 100 yds, how tight of a group do you need in the real world?
good question as it seems (i have read but sometimes my english is not that goo) in the Swift reloading manual 1 that the mini speed for expansion is 1800 fps for Swift a frame bullet ... maybe some testers has found something else.
Who really gives a $hit about recoil when your talking bear defence or the one or two shots you might take while hunting,hopped up on adrenaline.I'm betting that a fully loaded .458 is alot less punishing on the body than a grizzly attack.Bruised cheeks and shoulders and even scope-eye heals eventually.....being dis-embowled or decapitated....not so much.
