A good non-restricted AR style rifle.

Red_Liner740 said:
regarding SU16.

Call it flimsy, call it plasticky or feeling like a toy, call it whatever, but one thing nobody has ever said is that it "patterns like a shotgun"

Every single review, owner, etc, have said that its surprisingly accurate, and i can attest to that.

250 yards, 10x10 plate, zero issues ringing it every single shot.

I've also had a Mini 14 in a Sparta stock. Heavy doesnt begin to describe that tank. The Su16 is easily close to half the weight.
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Well there must be something seriously wrong with the one we were shooting then.
We tried many different types of ammo and all shooting was done off a rest from a solid shooting table. All types of ammo produced 5-10 inch 5 shot groups at 100yds.
Maybe your's is better than that but all I have to go on is the results we got that day.
 
Hmm, for NR, and cheap - I keep thinking SKS. I know you said you have one but left it stock. Hell for ~200 bucks go buy 2, a tapco stock, a few tapco mags and a wartak rail and you've got a cheap package that would def work for bunnies, gophers and prolly a couple of deer. I did this to one of my SKSs and it's really not a bad shooter. Paid roughly 200 for the gun (chrome lined barrel), 100 bucks or so for the tapco stock which was a simple drop in (ATI was a PIA btw), something like 120 for the wartak rail and about 30 bucks each for 5 rnd tapco mags. The Wartak rail is really solid and seems to hold zero when removed for cleaning. Get some decent hunting 762X39 or better yet make some nice hand loads and you're prolly in pretty good shape.

If you're looking to take Rams at 1000 yards, you might need to find a nice bolt gun.
 
Brianma65 said:
Acr = $3000 + . Op said cheap. For $3000 + it should be great.
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Cheap means different things to different people.
To me $3000 is cheap. My 223 bolt action is close to $4000 with glass, my NR ACR with all three caliber conversions I have put together is running close to $5000, and my 338 Lapua is close to $10000 with glass.

If the OP wants some real suggestions then maybe he should answer what I asked earlier and give an actual dollar value to what he wants to spend.

You get what you pay for, if you buy a $1000 NR black rifle then you don't get much. People who own an SU-16 or a T-97 may be offended by that but I really don't care. The T-97 is a disposable rifle. I think anyone that spends even more money on one with the flat top upper and trying to find a quadrail forend is foolishly wasting their money. Good luck finding parts or getting any warranty when you break something. The SU-16 is a cheap entry level rifle that may work for most people but if it was that great then they would be more popular with experienced shooters. By the time you spend all that money customizing it you could have just bought a decent rifle in the first place.

Just so you know, the ACR is great. Worth every penny. Pick up a used one for $2200, add in a NR Dlask barrel for $550 and see for yourself. Accurate, reliable, and well built.
 
cr5 said:
Cheap means different things to different people.
To me $3000 is cheap. My 223 bolt action is close to $4000 with glass, my NR ACR with all three caliber conversions I have put together is running close to $5000, and my 338 Lapua is close to $10000 with glass.

If the OP wants some real suggestions then maybe he should answer what I asked earlier and give an actual dollar value to what he wants to spend.

You get what you pay for, if you buy a $1000 NR black rifle then you don't get much. People who own an SU-16 or a T-97 may be offended by that but I really don't care. The T-97 is a disposable rifle. I think anyone that spends even more money on one with the flat top upper and trying to find a quadrail forend is foolishly wasting their money. Good luck finding parts or getting any warranty when you break something. The SU-16 is a cheap entry level rifle that may work for most people but if it was that great then they would be more popular with experienced shooters. By the time you spend all that money customizing it you could have just bought a decent rifle in the first place.

Just so you know, the ACR is great. Worth every penny. Pick up a used one for $2200, add in a NR Dlask barrel for $550 and see for yourself. Accurate, reliable, and well built.
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OP said inexpensive and used for hunting , a little bigger than a rabbit. .223 maybe? Cost of black .223 $800 to $4000? Inexpensive to most people would be on the lower end of that. I really don't know a whole lot about rifles , other tha what I have , that's why I commented on mine only. When it wears out I'll buy a better one next time. I'm not worried about if I foolishly spent money or not easy come easy go , it's only money. Maybe OP cannot afford the $4000 rifle just yet. I'm sure when he makes a few mistakes he'll figure it out. Until then have fun OP.:)
 
It's not an ar, but my 581 series mini 14 has served me well. 3moa at 100 yards, tapco 5/30 mags, a variety of stocks you can choose from, and the ability to fire thousands of rounds through it without cleaning and no jamming. What else could you ask for?
 
00aught said:
sorry to burst your bubble but an AR180b is not a "non restricted ar" its a non restricted ar180b. completely different then an AR15.


and to the OP. for you needs, i would recommend a robinson arms xcr-l in 6.8spc. as close as youre gonna get to an ar (looks wise) and can hunt more then small animals with 6.8.

i love the tavor but i think its a bad choice for you, its .223 which really limits your hunting. and with tax its over 3k. + optics and ammo.
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AR stands for: "Armalite Rifle" or simply "Armalite". The AR180B is made by Armalite is it not? So it is in fact an AR.
 
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L42A1 said:
AR stands for: "Armalite Rifle" or simply "Armalite". The AR180B is made by Armalite it it not? So it is in fact an AR.
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Thanks for the lesson. I'm well aware what AR stands for

When people say "AR" they are generally talking about an ar15
 
Brianma65 said:
OP said inexpensive and used for hunting , a little bigger than a rabbit. .223 maybe? Cost of black .223 $800 to $4000? Inexpensive to most people would be on the lower end of that. I really don't know a whole lot about rifles , other tha what I have , that's why I commented on mine only. When it wears out I'll buy a better one next time. I'm not worried about if I foolishly spent money or not easy come easy go , it's only money. Maybe OP cannot afford the $4000 rifle just yet. I'm sure when he makes a few mistakes he'll figure it out. Until then have fun OP.:)
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Exactly why I've mentioned twice now that he needs to actually give us his budget. Simply stating he wants an inexpensive rifle means nothing unless we know what he considers to be inexpensive.

I've owned almost every non restricted black rifle available as well as 6 AR's. Those I haven't owned I've at least had a chance to play with at the range, still no exposure to the Benelli MR-1 or FN FS2000 yet though. For an inexpensive black rifle I think the best bang for the buck is the Armalite AR180B-2 if you can find one, I'm getting mine back soon and am looking forward to adding it back into the collection. Second to that is the HK SL8-4 which with a $400 Hera Arms gen 2 lower is very nice but is a little muzzle heavy, it's a fair trade for the level of accuracy it is capable of though. Both of the ones I owned were sub moa rifles with the right ammo.

So to the OP, how about you share your budget with us? This crap is going to keep going around and around until you narrow it down a little.
Honestly though if you are on a tight budget and you plan to hunt with whatever you buy I think you should forget about getting a semi auto black rifle and just get a nice bolt action, it will be much more accurate and will cost you much less. Also don't forget that if you are on a tight budget you need to consider the cost of feeding a semi auto that doesn't run on cheap surplus 7.62x39.
You don't usually get quality and cheap at the same time when you buy rifles.

How about a Thurion Defense carbine? 9mm, .40cal, .45auto, 10mm are all available. They are around $1000. Other than the 10mm they are fairly cheap to feed and would be pretty fun on critters under 100yds.
 
Thanks all for all your suggestions. cr5, to be honest, my budget is pretty open. I didn't really want to go over $4,000, ideally I was looking for something around the $1,500 - $2,000. As I do my research on all these guns, I'm starting agree with the guys that keep on suggesting the sks conversions. All these AR style rifles seem to has the same accuracy has my $200 sks. So maybe your right, maybe if I'm looking for a long range and accurate rifle, I should just get a good bolt action and as for the AR look a like I might just do a nice sks conversion. Thanks again everyone for all your inputs
 
With a $1500 to $2000 budget I would hunt down an AR180b or take a lowball stab at an HK SL8.

All things considered if I were you I would save for the one you want. Time and time again when I was younger I would buy good enough only to find out that I was not quite happy, sell at a loss and buy what I wanted in the end. just save up and get what your heart tells you (or the voices I your head). If accuracy is what you need the HK SL8 is the top dog. If you want caliber conversion, lighter, and more 3 gun capable yet only slightly less accuracy than the SL8 then get a NR ACR. If you want similar accuracy to the ACR but light and cheaper but crap ergos then MR1. If a bush beater is the plan and you just want to scare the woods and feel deadly to the critters then get a T97. Stay away from older poor accuracy mini14 and self destructive SU-16.

Bottom line If you want a balanced all use NR modern sporting rifle get a NR ACR. That said I got a far from stock HK SL8 because my first priority was utmost accuracy for the specific need I have for my NR MSR. (I have an M4 for IPSC 3 gun)

There I said a mouthfull. Flame on
Moe
 
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