A Holland and Holland side lock ejector Zeppelin gun for Christmas?

Big Bad

Big Bad

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In the year of Our Ford Year, 8 and loving it.
Just reading about this gun in an online copy of The Field, December 2022 edition. Article describes unusual guns being offered at auction in the past year, supposedly with a view for Christmas gift giving. Such items include Bren guns with a complete set of kit, don't worry they're deactivated, but for me the eye catching item was a H&H 12G sidelock that was one of 100 delivered to the Royal Naval Air Service in 1915 and, while 'steel friendly' was designed to fire a 2 3/4" chain shot shell intended to tear into the fabric and rigging of attacking German zeppelins. The author claims it has mid-estimate price of a mere 1000 pounds. Apparently this would have been a strictly functional working gun and not the usual Holland and Holland work of art, the photo is of a plain jane side by side, but they are rare enough that I can't find any online record of them outside of that auction and an Imperial War Museum listing, and for sure not a photo. Still, it's all I want for Christmas and if anyone finds one in the gear exchange here, let me know....
 
Interesting history, to be sure, and it is covered in Donald Dallas's book Holland & Holland The Royal Gunmakers The Complete History. Henry Holland and William Mansfield obtained patent n. 23196 of 27 November 1914, for a string of shot that could be fired for a shotgun. A single 12-bore ball, followed by a string of smaller shot, fitted inside a cartridge, with the object of, yes, bringing down zeppelins. The guns were supplied to H&H by Webley & Scott, unstocked. The first, no. 28878, was delivered in February 1915, and the last was no 29556, also in 2015. Your information is correct; just over 100 guns were supplied. Each cost £12.13s.6d, and they were delivered to the Admiralty for use with the Royal Navy Air Service.

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Why is that combination more effective than a regular slug? Would the larger ball not carry the rest on tow?
I know tied buckshot works great for high flying geese but an air ship is a lil different than a goose
 
brybenn said:
Why is that combination more effective than a regular slug? Would the larger ball not carry the rest on tow?
I know tied buckshot works great for high flying geese but an air ship is a lil different than a goose
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I saw some documentary or other that described how difficult it was to set the zeppelins on fire from the air, despite their being filled with hydrogen gas, and it didn't do much damage to just shoot them full of holes.
 
Big Bad said:
I saw some documentary or other that described how difficult it was to set the zeppelins on fire from the air, despite their being filled with hydrogen gas, and it didn't do much damage to just shoot them full of holes.
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Yeah, it took FOREVER for the Hindenburg to catch! Laugh2
 
According to Dallas's book, "...the string of shot being intended to cause gaping holes or to damage struts and woodwork in a more effective manner than a rifle bullet could."

I guess a tear is potentially more critical than just a puncture hole.
 
Pinfire said:
According to Dallas's book, "...the string of shot being intended to cause gaping holes or to damage struts and woodwork in a more effective manner than a rifle bullet could."

I guess a tear is potentially more critical than just a puncture hole.
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I could see that being true but you'd think the balls would be the same size so they spread and wrap around on contact. Having one larger ball it would act as a leader ball as the smaller ones lose velocity and get pulled by the larger. Old poachers trick for high flying geese was to tie 00 buck shot together with a foot or 2 of wire between the pellets. It would cut wings or heads off any goose it contacted.
My thoughts and experiences anyway. Cool concept
 
Royal navy used it it the age of sail chain and ball shot for dismasting sailing vessels ,probably where the idea started.
 
I haven't found a video explaining how difficult it was to set a Zeppelin on fire despite their H2, but this one does explain the British Navy had with them. And as is stated in the video, even dropping a bomb or two on a landed zeppelin did not guarantee a Hindenburg like fire either. Not embedding this one, this is after all the sporting shotgun thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3chSoV855cI
 
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