I think that the pros can also play with out rules and that it will still make them better at the shooting aspect of their jobs even though there are lots of differences. They'll improve their overall marskmanship, speed and shooting on the clock. It's cross-training.
A marine and an IPSC guy walk into a match....
- Thread starter TRaTSeRiF
- Start date
It would seem that we are making the same point but in a different way. Look back at the first few posts. The point is to make LEO's better shooters by introducing them to competition shooting. We all agree. However, what we are both saying is that because of the nature of AFQ's, LEO's typically don't do well in their first few attempts at competition which is why I am confused at the gist of your post. Please re read my post.
I will strongly disagree about the stress level most LEO's feel when re qualifying. Many LEO's get so stressed out by re quall's they get sick to their stomach and even book off work to avoid the overwhelming stress they place on themselves. This happens at IPSC matches as well. Competition experience does not necessarily reduce the anxiety level at all. It is managed, as the article says by compartmentalizing the stress and proceeding with your goal. I have spoken to more than a few officers who were involved in real life gun fights and even though they might have dealt with the stress of the moment differently, they all say the stress of a gunfight is completely different than an AFQ or competition.
The bottom line in this whole discussion is the more different styles of shooting you experience, the better overall shooter you will become. If you do them often enough.
Stress is stress.... being in life or death events is not a magical event. Its not special,..its a lot of adrenaline...fear and anxiety. confidence can help...building confidence takes time, like time pushing your limits. Where are you to do that with firearms? (Hint::: not once a year) Not purposely trying to cause doubt, but i am just one guy with an opinion. Cheers
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crazyjackrabbit
CGN Regular
Having worked as an armed guard before (not saying its the same as law enforcement) I had to do qualifications twice a year for pistol, and once a yr for shotgun. Having shot IPSC before made if much easier to do the RQ. I was never stressed doing them, while others with less trigger time were always way more stressed about it. Failing meant they would be looking for new employment. Paper targets dont shoot back, and you never know how you'll react in a life or death situation. Just have to rely on skills/training and hope you do the right thing.
I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to say that.
They might qualify at the top of the class, but they won't be competitive anymore in IPSC until they get back to the gear and training they used in the first place. Which was the point regarding the equipment and techniques used by police and having them go into IPSC. I also have a few points of contention with some of your post regarding the revolver. I've shot the revolver. Fixed barrel is more accurate, as well as trigger pull is better even in DAO. Let's not forget the ability to cheat the trigger on the revolvers, which doesn't work with the 5946. 5946 has a long trigger pull and is 12 pounds. Also the requals are slow but I wouldn't say there is no stress. If you only care about qualifying then ok, but if going for Crowns or drawing/shooting fast it's a different story. You can make anything as easy or lame as you want, or as tough and skilled. Sounds like you dogged it in quals compared to pushing yourself. Or you're one of those guys who likes to claim they do so much less than they do as if they are somehow more skilled/talented than reality. Seen more than a few of those around. I always take it with a grain of salt.
By the way I could definitely see doing IPSC or IDPA when retired. Better than playing golf. But not going to mess things up for on the job. Retraining is hard enough. Ask anyone carbine trained how hard it was to keep the finger on the trigger after shooting when they've had it engrained to put finger to frame right away. In a time of real stress you're going to fall down to the level of your training, not rise to the occasion. Better to make sure that training is consistent with the intended purpose. Like I said, when retired I would like nothing better than to try out some competitions and will change techniques etc to avoid being in last place. But for now, last place isn't a ribbon or cup and tried/true rules the day when everything is on the line.
Oh and C8 IUR beats the crap out of a pistol!
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They might qualify at the top of the class, but they won't be competitive anymore in IPSC until they get back to the gear and training they used in the first place. Which was the point regarding the equipment and techniques used by police and having them go into IPSC. I also have a few points of contention with some of your post regarding the revolver. I've shot the revolver. Fixed barrel is more accurate, as well as trigger pull is better even in DAO. Let's not forget the ability to cheat the trigger on the revolvers, which doesn't work with the 5946. 5946 has a long trigger pull and is 12 pounds. Also the requals are slow but I wouldn't say there is no stress. If you only care about qualifying then ok, but if going for Crowns or drawing/shooting fast it's a different story. You can make anything as easy or lame as you want, or as tough and skilled. Sounds like you dogged it in quals compared to pushing yourself. Or you're one of those guys who likes to claim they do so much less than they do as if they are somehow more skilled/talented than reality. Seen more than a few of those around. I always take it with a grain of salt.
By the way I could definitely see doing IPSC or IDPA when retired. Better than playing golf. But not going to mess things up for on the job. Retraining is hard enough. Ask anyone carbine trained how hard it was to keep the finger on the trigger after shooting when they've had it engrained to put finger to frame right away. In a time of real stress you're going to fall down to the level of your training, not rise to the occasion. Better to make sure that training is consistent with the intended purpose. Like I said, when retired I would like nothing better than to try out some competitions and will change techniques etc to avoid being in last place. But for now, last place isn't a ribbon or cup and tried/true rules the day when everything is on the line.
Oh and C8 IUR beats the crap out of a pistol!
I'm the guy who doesn't make excuses for not finding the time to compete. You are making a personal attack based on your non -competing background and ONLY law enforcement background. I have done both for years. 16 at work...12 competing.
it is the number one excuse from LE....i don't want to compete....or i don't want to mix up my training by competing..... ( what you are really saying is you don't want to lose, and have other see me lose)
If you don't see the value of more rounds down range...i will not convince you online or otherwise.
No actually I'm saying exactly what I said not what you are interpreting. Also no personal attack, only some of the BS in your post. Nothing personal about it, attacking the argument not the person.
actually I'm the guy who was at the range shooting duty gear first even though I have far Better stuff in my gun safe. Work first then play. Never confuse the two. Use the same manual of arms as much as possible so if it gets real there are no mistakes. Get really good with what you've got when on the job, the rest is playing and having fun.
Recent example for you.... carbine training. The people that often fail the course or have a hard time are those that have previous training, especially older military training. The manipulations are very different while still using the same firearm. The training comes down from real world experience. Retraining yourself for competition makes so called muscle memory not so automatic. You will revert to your latest training when it hits the fan. Fine motor skills go out the window, along with hearing and tunnel vision occurs in the real world scenarios.
Like I said when retired or if riding a desk/retired on duty then I'm sure it would be tons of fun and I will definitely give it a try. I like fast accurate stuff. Could definitely see doing that. That's my kind of golf!
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- Location
- Halifax - NS
I can't tell if this is a thread about cops who wannabe competition shooters or competition shooters who wannabe cops, or shooters that wannabe competition shooters or cops that wannabe SWAT guys (hint: first you buy the two size too small shirt...)
but I do know this...
but I do know this...
