A new old No4Mk1

emmab

emmab

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Hello. I just inherited this nice old rifle. It’s in fantastic condition and virtually looks unfired. From what I can figure out its a Savage made rifle for England in 1942, but no property of the US on it. A flaming bomb is stamped here and there. Bolt head is stamped 2 and handle serial #matches the receiver.




Thanks in advance for any information offered
Cheers
 
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That's a nice one. Early 42 and Mk1 rather than 1*. Not rare but not common either. US ordnance mark for lend lease. Good candidate for a restor. pm me if you need help. I am out in Mission.
 
Yup, it's got the early cocking piece as well. I don't know if those were replaced during ftr processes or there just weren't a lot of them put on.

If you look closely at the receiver, just above the model marks in the third photo you can see the grinder marks where the "US Property" stamp was ground out. Some people say this was done purposely in some depots but who really knows.

That mkIII rear sight might have been installed during an ftr as well. It may also be original.


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Yes I see what you mean. Looks like (US) in cartouche. I’d never have seen that!!thanks for the info and offers. It’s the only Lee Enfield type rifle I have and would love to have a desporterized example as a milsurp
 
Well, this one is definitely worth restoring to original condition.

Of the million rifles built by Savage, this is only Number 7633: just 3/4 of 1% of the way into production. Unlikely you will find another one that early, still in this kind of condition.

When you "desporterise" the critter, do hang onto the wood which you remove; that was how someone close to you liked it. Besides, it's less weight if you want to hunt with it!
 
emmab : Apparently Savage had their own unique metal finish (Du-lite, a type of parkerizing?) and yours looks like it might be original. Definitely worth putting in a new forend. If you've never done it before (and want to try) study up on a forum like "milsurps" as it is different from any other type of rifle. I have a much rougher Savage a few thousand earlier than yours that also had the US Property mark ground off at some point. Check the bore on yours and count the grooves- you might have a 6 groove barrel, something Savage used in their early production.

milsurpo
 
Nice looking no.4 sporter, as other have said it’s a good candidate to restore. That being said it’s a nice looking sporter, I have a soft spot for them. The 43 lonbranch I bought with the intention of desporterising a couple years ago had so much character when I cleaned it up that I decided to leave it as is and hunt with it, which is likely why someone sporterized it in the first place. It’s a joy to carry around the woods and it shoots straight, I took two whitetail with it last year.

 
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Off hand I think it’s 6 left. Looking at the muzzle it looks like a hexagon where the grooves are. The rifling looks new but the end of the barrel over the crown has some dings. Yes it’s a very nice looking hunting gun but I’ve got lots of those. I’m sure the rifle is very strong. How it shoots is another question.

Here’s a few bolt pics


 
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Look on sites like Liberty Tree, Sarco and Numerich for the parts you need. You may have to do a bit of searching but there are a few places that likely have original Savage wood. I would think a rifle of that early manufacture wouldn't likely have any Long Branch marked wood but anything was possible in 1942.

That rifle will very likely shoot very well if the new fore end is bedded properly into the ways.

That little ding on the crown is just a character mark. Shouldn't hurt anything.

As mentioned, go onto the Milsurps Knowledge site and look up how to set it up properly. There are also good references for parts on that site.

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Thanks. I have to admit that this part ,restoration,is out of my league. I’ve talked to other gunners that are willing to help and I think, if this rifle passes muster, I will try to put it back together. You guys have been invaluable and I appreciate the help.
Cheers
 
emmab said:
Thanks. I have to admit that this part ,restoration,is out of my league. I’ve talked to other gunners that are willing to help and I think, if this rifle passes muster, I will try to put it back together. You guys have been invaluable and I appreciate the help.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Before you shoot it, take off the fore end and make sure the kingscrew spacer is still present. If it isn't and the screw has been overtightened the rifle likely won't shoot well.

Seeing as it has already been cut down, a good glass bedding job in the ways and around the kingscrew areas would do more good than harm and have no effect on the value of the rifle. At the very least, it would likely be a big improvement even if the kingscrew spacer is present.

I have seen some No4 rifles that are honest MOA shooters, with factory ammo, when they're set up properly and have excellent bores.


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Your barrel is fine, bayonet lugs and all.

Likely what you will need for parts would include
forestock
upper handguard
lower handguard
rear barrel band
middle barrel band with screw and sling swivel
forward band (nosecap) with screw
foresight guard and screw

the parts are all out there. The ones you are looking for to make this a perfect restoration will be Savage S or C marked.

Query to the REAL experts: is this rifle early enough to need the waisted foresight guard and/or the hinged middle band? Also, would Long Branch parts be appropriate for this rifle?
 
Not a real expert, but my understanding is that when Savage-Stevens tern-minated No4 production in late 1944 all unused parts were shipped to Long Branch. Yrs ago I picked over a number of LB rifles for various bits before they went to the smelter and I did get some Savage components from them, esp safeties.
 
smellie said:
Your barrel is fine, bayonet lugs and all.

Likely what you will need for parts would include
forestock
upper handguard
lower handguard
rear barrel band
middle barrel band with screw and sling swivel
forward band (nosecap) with screw
foresight guard and screw

the parts are all out there. The ones you are looking for to make this a perfect restoration will be Savage S or C marked.

Query to the REAL experts: is this rifle early enough to need the waisted foresight guard and/or the hinged middle band? Also, would Long Branch parts be appropriate for this rifle?
Click to expand...

The definition of an expert is a former drip under pressure. I'm not expert!

From reading Skip Stratton's survey of No.4s I'd suggest neither very early part would be appropriate. By the time the Savage and Long Branch drawings were issued, I believe the UK had resolved the hangover No.1 'artifacts', except for the lump on the right side of the receiver. So an early Savage foresight base would be what Stratton calls a Second Variation, milled from a forging with straight sides and rounded not squared tops. The front band would be what Stratton also calls a Second Variation, milled in one piece with the screw lugs machined out. Later bands would be milled or stamped with welded lugs.

I agree the majority of parts have to be S marked not LB. Again it is all about the chronology of who was making what and when, and how serious the makers were about sourcing everything themselves.

Who's the accepted oracle for No.4 restorations on CGN? It is Louthepou!
 
I’m glad I misunderstood and happy the bbl is not chopped. I’ll have it looked at and determine if it’s a candidate. As far as I’m concerned I would prefer a Lee Enfield in its original state but this rifle does seem to have all the boxes checked. And I already have it. 303 British is not too common and at the moment I don’t reload, so I’ll stick with my .270 and .300 win mag for hunting. I have a rifle in 303 savage that may never get shot. But I enjoy the old rifles. Yes Lou the pou. Next will be my Carl Gustav Swedish M96 sporter. LOL. Thanks and I appreciate all the input
Cheers
 
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a 'proper' Savage wood forestock will be the hardest part to find.

you may need to make do with a forestock made for a Mk1* and cut out the relief for the bolt release yourself.

I have a similar rifle, a little earlier production 0C5### but it was converted to the Mk1/2 standard, so any parts might have been proper.
 
Thank you. I can see I’m over my head and I’ll rely on others knowledge to put this one back to shape. Great info if I can correlate the parts needed to what’s out there, but there’s no rush. I’ll start to acquire parts as I find them(with help I’m sure).
I was wondering how I can tell how many grooves the rifling has? I just looked at the muzzle and assumed 6 from the hex pattern on the end of bbl.
cheers
 
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