A Ross Semi-Auto Prototype

7offsuit2

7offsuit2

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While scanning the internet for an elusive Ross Rifle (original) for sale - at a realistic price! - I came across this:

http://ww w.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/59/lid/1463

I have always known about the HUOT Ross model, but this! I only wish I had the scratch, and the time, to personally import this treasure back home.

For your enjoyment, Cheers!

~ Thomas
 
I would not go too "GA-GA" over this one as an Authentic Ross Prototype. There was quite a discussion about this one a couple of years ago. Not exactly sure which Forum, but it was likely the RossRifle.com website. I think I e-mailed SMELLIE on this one, along with some conversation. There are several things wrong with it as a product of the Ross factory.

While it certainly has a lot of Ross rifle parts in it, it was the opinion of many of the more senior Ross Rifle collectors that this was an interesting idea from someone's fertile mind, it was not from Sir Charles Ross's.

One of the glaring inconsistencies is the "HG" serial number stamped on the barrel. The Ross HG rifles were WWI Home Guard stampings on the wood butt stock but the Ross factory was closed down by 1919.

Once again, buy the rifle and not the story. As noted, this rifle came to light a couple of years ago, and no provenance could be produced except the story that it was bought at an auction of Savage factory rifles and parts. Now, this rifle has surfaced with a glowing description at a large gun auction.
 
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buffdog said:
I would not go too "GA-GA" over this one as an Authentic Ross Prototype. There was quite a discussion about this one a couple of years ago. Not exactly sure which Forum, but it was likely the RossRifle.com website. I think I e-mailed SMELLIE on this one, along with some conversation. There are several things wrong with it as a product of the Ross factory.

While it certainly has a lot of Ross rifle parts in it, it was the opinion of many of the more senior Ross Rifle collectors that this was an interesting idea from someone's fertile mind, it was not from Sir Charles Ross's.

One of the glaring inconsistencies is the "HG" serial number stamped on the barrel. The Ross HG rifles were WWII Home Guard stampings on the wood butt stock but the Ross factory was closed down by 1919.

Once again, buy the rifle and not the story. As noted, this rifle came to light a couple of years ago, and no provenance could be produced except the story that it was bought at an auction of Savage factory rifles and parts. Now, this rifle has surfaced with a glowing description at a large gun auction.
Click to expand...

Good point, after my last post I finally got the link to work. I then cross referenced it with pictures of a real Ross auto loader prototype given to me by Smellie and indeed it doesn't add up!!
 
Some pictures and a description from the Auction.







An interesting Auction description, but it does raise some questions.

"This unique rifle was developed specifically by Sir Charles Ross circa 1910-1918"

"The written documentation provided by the consignor notes that this rifle was developed in the 1910 time frame specifically by Sir Charles Ross."

In the link to this rifle in the Canadian GunNutz archives, there are six pages of Posts on this rifle. It is interesting that documentation was provided by the Consignor noting this rifle was developed specifically by Sir Charles Ross himself in the 1910 time frame, but the HG stamps are from the later 1917-1918 period. I am of the thought that any Home Guard Unit during Wartime would be unlikely to give up one of it's more modern rifles, (and the Ross was still a modern rifle in 1918). Two years ago, this "documentation" did not seem to be available.

There is no doubt that this rifle came from the Savage sale. There is no doubt that the Ross Mark III rifle was used as a basis for a lot of the parts, but to give Sir Charles Ross the origin of the rifle based on the fact that parts from one of his rifles was used in it's construction does not seem quite right. There are just too many things that I find inconsistent with the facts and times for me to accept that this rifle is an Original Ross Prototype made by Sir Charles Ross or under his direction.

A better way to comment on this rifle is for anyone to read the first post here on Gunnutz, and to click on the link provided by JUSTER in Post number 5 above. It would be interesting to see if there are any markings on the barrel under the handguard.

For me, on this one, I am going to keep my wallet shoved deeply into my pocket. Unfortunately, we see similar instances of a firearm suddenly "discovered as a rare one" here and on other firearms forums frequently. Someone pays a big buck depending upon the story, and posts pictures here. Then, some of the more knowledgeable people point out some on the inconcistencies of the Original Post and that the firearm is not as supposed. The OP has "bought the story" and is stuck with the firearm, so he now attempts to verify and justify the story by using the Internet. Unfortunately, after being repeated so many times on the Internet, it tends to become real.
 
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The HG prefix on the serial number are from the 1914-15 period when RRCo was makeiing a version of the MkIII for sale to the Home Guard an unofficial paramilitary set up by civilians. These arms were numbered in the commercial serial # range on the barrel but with the HG prefix. HG prefixed rifles were in inventory at the RRCo when it was expropriated in 1918.
 
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