A Special Hell

StrelokM38 said:
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Hans! Get ze flammenwerfer...
 
Back when I started into this the norm was to sporterize a military rifle for hunting. No contest between a $20 Lee-Enfield and a $150 dollar Winchester Model 70. How prices and values have changed.

A scope is standard these days, and why not. Target resolution is so superior, esp in low light conditions when many animals are shot. Aperture sights were a great leap forward for military rifles starting 100 years ago with designs like the Ross and P14/M17 Enfields. They were refined through the M1 Garand which probably had the best non-optical military sights.

Aperture sights can still do some accurate shooting. A picture of a couple of 100 yd targets shot with a pair of 03A3 Springfields at the range this week. The target on the right is with a Smith-Corona wearing it's original 4 groove barrel. The one on the left is a Remington with a NOS US GI 2 groove barrel. 3 groups measured .8 inch, the other 1.25 inch.DSCF1247.jpg
 

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This reminds me of a now defunct gunsmith in Sunny Edmonton... They showed me a reblued Model 94 they got in for refinishing. A farmer buddy reblued the owner's gun with what I think was Ford small block blue paint!!! Surprisingly it was a great paint job; just not what the owner thought he'd get back. LOL! Sorry no pics of that debacle. Just a horrific picture burned into my mind...
 
DANCESWITHEMPTIES said:
This reminds me of a now defunct gunsmith in Sunny Edmonton... They showed me a reblued Model 94 they got in for refinishing. A farmer buddy reblued the owner's gun with what I think was Ford small block blue paint!!! Surprisingly it was a great paint job; just not what the owner thought he'd get back. LOL! Sorry no pics of that debacle. Just a horrific picture burned into my mind...
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Well, at least it was "blue".
 
bdft said:
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On #######. He wants 1200.00 for it.
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I only just read the caption. Don't know how I missed it the first time. Took a while to get my jaw back up off the floor. He took a $300 or $400 rifle, defaced it, and now he wants $1200??? Mind you, he'll settle for a swap, if you've got a 7mm/.300/.338 Magnum to trade. It doesn't say if you're also expected to kick in some cash to make up the difference in value between his work of art and your boat paddle .338...
 
bearhunter said:
Over the past sixty years of shooting, I find that the majority of folks that shoot iron sights, shoot milsurps or lever actions. Not everyone of course. There is a small but dedicated group that shoots Black Powder firearms and match rifles, mostly 22rf. Handguns are a different discussion.

Every year, I see less and less iron sighted firearms. Even the tactical shooters use enhanced holosights.

I used to think that it was better to teach a newbie to shoot with iron sights, preferably on a 22rf of some sort. I've changed my attitude and view on that.

Many folks have real issues aligning front and rear sights. Poor sight, cross dominant eyes, confusion, hand eye coordination. Scopes eliminate most of those issues and when push comes to shove, make the shooter much more confident in their abilities to shoot well. So they relax and actually do shoot better.

When starting out a newbie now, I still give them a go with iron sights, just to familiarize them with their use and a bit of history. Then I put them onto scoped rifles and continue the lessons from there.

One other factor, The scopes available today are marvels of technology. Precision ground lenses, rare earth coatings, side adjustable parallax, anti glare coatings, easily repeatable adjustments, incredible sharpness and focusing. Compactness, built in laser range finders and the list goes on.

Even the cheaper scopes on the market today are better than most of the high end scopes from 40-50 years ago.

Why rely on old tech when there is new tech available that is extremely reliable and relatively cheap?? The days of building/purchasing firearms with iron sights are mostly gone. They just aren't needed, nor as reliable in low light conditions as a run of the mill modern scope.
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I appreciate your reasoned and flexible approach to the irons vs optics discussion. I have had a hard time justifying my use of optics for the kids, even though I felt they were better. You articulated my point of view very well. I started with irons, even in the infantry, but advances have certainly changed the sighting landscape.
 
emerson said:
I appreciate your reasoned and flexible approach to the irons vs optics discussion. I have had a hard time justifying my use of optics for the kids, even though I felt they were better. You articulated my point of view very well. I started with irons, even in the infantry, but advances have certainly changed the sighting landscape.
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I cannot bring myself to change some things. For example my Wichita 1375 target rifle looks the bee's knees with proper target sights but my Remington 700 Varmint is properly dressed with a NF as its top hat. Winchester M94 carbine gets a Williams FP rear site and the BLR in 222 an M8 Leupold fixed power.
Some things are just meant to be. ;-)
 
bearhunter said:
Over the past sixty years of shooting, I find that the majority of folks that shoot iron sights, shoot milsurps or lever actions. Not everyone of course. There is a small but dedicated group that shoots Black Powder firearms and match rifles, mostly 22rf. Handguns are a different discussion.

Every year, I see less and less iron sighted firearms. Even the tactical shooters use enhanced holosights.

I used to think that it was better to teach a newbie to shoot with iron sights, preferably on a 22rf of some sort. I've changed my attitude and view on that.

Many folks have real issues aligning front and rear sights. Poor sight, cross dominant eyes, confusion, hand eye coordination. Scopes eliminate most of those issues and when push comes to shove, make the shooter much more confident in their abilities to shoot well. So they relax and actually do shoot better.

When starting out a newbie now, I still give them a go with iron sights, just to familiarize them with their use and a bit of history. Then I put them onto scoped rifles and continue the lessons from there.

One other factor, The scopes available today are marvels of technology. Precision ground lenses, rare earth coatings, side adjustable parallax, anti glare coatings, easily repeatable adjustments, incredible sharpness and focusing. Compactness, built in laser range finders and the list goes on.

Even the cheaper scopes on the market today are better than most of the high end scopes from 40-50 years ago.

Why rely on old tech when there is new tech available that is extremely reliable and relatively cheap?? The days of building/purchasing firearms with iron sights are mostly gone. They just aren't needed, nor as reliable in low light conditions as a run of the mill modern scope.
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I was having a great day at the range a while back, hitting a fire bell hanging at 250 yards with my N04 Mk II. The guy beside me kept staring at me with a confused look on his face - on the cease fire he asks me how I was aiming. I pointed to the irons and he said (and I'm not kidding) "What are those?" Somewhat shocked I said iron sights and he said "how do you aim with those?". He had no clue about irons, unreal.
 
Brutus said:
There was a disturbingly long thread unfortunately here on CGN once.

Kind of scared to look for it, because quite obviously it was sanctioned for mysterious & unknown reasons ????
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Alright, since it appears no one else is going to ask, I guess I'll bite: What is this evil thread of which you speak? To someone new like me, you've only served to make me curious. If you're trying to avoid it coming to life again, maybe someone could send me a link off forum, so I can check it out in the privacy of my own home. I promise to string garlic and wolfbane around my monitor.

:Slavex:
 
Herkimer said:
Alright, since it appears no one else is going to ask, I guess I'll bite: What is this evil thread of which you speak? To someone new like me, you've only served to make me curious. If you're trying to avoid it coming to life again, maybe someone could send me a link off forum, so I can check it out in the privacy of my own home. I promise to string garlic and wolfbane around my monitor.

:Slavex:
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Ok. It's a thread dedicated to a children's cartoon.
My Little Pony. Strangely it got much too much mileage on CGN.
cringing !!!
 
Brutus said:
Ok. It's a thread dedicated to a children's cartoon.
My Little Pony. Strangely it got much too much mileage on CGN.
cringing !!!
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Oof! 'Nuff said. You just killed my curiosity the way a picture of Rosie O'Donnell can kill a.... well, let's just say you killed it.......f:P:

Thanks , that saved a lot of time.
 
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