A statement that needs to be made.
- Thread starter IRUNGUNS
- Start date
Strict gun laws seem to have stopped shootings in the UK (e.g. no repeats of Hungerford or Dunblane), Australia and NZ.
Not any mass shooter events in those countries since they cracked down. Need to be careful with facts otherwise they can turn around and bite you.....
Not any mass shooter events in those countries since they cracked down. Need to be careful with facts otherwise they can turn around and bite you.....
With all respect, I disagree .. it depends on what kind of firearm legislation …
if it is more bans, prohibitions, confiscations, etc - then no, it's a dead end ..
the main lesson from the NS event - inability of the police and authorities to provide any safety and/or protection .. for hours, forget minutes and/or seconds .. and seconds what's needed
but if it's a firearm legislation getting vetted people trained, tested, qualified in Use of Force Models and using handguns, allowing them to carry
(personally, I prefer open and not concealed) to protect themselves and fellow citizens - then yes, it will help …
why, IMHO, it should be trained, tested and qualified people? …
because UoFMs are different for different categories of people - LEOs, armed guards, armed civilians, and they are quite complex ..
and everyone carrying must be able in a split second identify if someone is behaving in accordance to their appropriate UoFM or not
and choose his/her own actions in accordance to his/her own UoFM … any error will have a dire consequences …
and be proficient in the use of a handgun, as on the streets, not in a controlled environment of the ranges, there are no missing shots …
every bullet meets a target … the problems is, was it an intended and legitimate target … if not, the shooter is fully responsible …
and again, with dire consequences ...
we don't know an awful lot of things … I guess, they are not ready yet ..
weapon(s)? licensed? shot/dead after taken into custody? crime scenes? what happened at each? timings?
no alerts to citizens in surrounding areas and traveling on area roads about a "phony" RCMP officer?
Nightstalker
CGN Regular
- Location
- KaH-NaH-Da
Not Confirmed thru official sources ,but apparently the perp took the slain constable's sidearm
Why did you quote me in your totally off topic comment.
….but the firearm tool is replaced with another tool...so in fact net change is minimal...just by different means. Blue Bird Café 37 killed with gas.
Sept. 1, 1972: An arson attack on a downtown Montreal night club kills 37 people and injures 64. Gasoline was spread on the stairway of Blue Bird Cafe and then ignited. Most of the deaths occurred in the Wagon Wheel country-western bar upstairs. Three young men from Montreal who had earlier been denied entry for drunkenness were convicted and sentenced to life in prison.
Interesting read..... http://thedailylibertarian.com/stop-guns-englands-mass-killing-problem/
Well said IRG.
And there is always the example of the UK, where, since they banned most guns, stabbings and knife related crimes have skyrocketed. Like it was said very early on, bans or further prohibitions do not take away the pure evil living within some individuals.
Xavier_Cat
Member
Please stop mentioning the U.K. as a example of good gun control. Ya no more mass shootings, but last time checked suicide bombs, acid attacks, car attacks, knife violence tend to do alot of damage. 10 million cameras watching every move you make and still they can’t stop it......Insane people will find a way.
Hard to compare and predict the effects of firearms legislation across countries, especially when the two countries you cited are islands, and not countries with a massive undefended land border with the world's largest gun store.
One needs to be careful about what the statistics actually show. "Cracking down" on firearms in England simply shifted the murderer's weapon of choice to knives and other sharp objects. Let's not forget vehicles driven into crowds, of course the classic bomb in a bus or subway, bats and other items that offer disproportionate energy to damage ratios when used on living tissue, and of course the tried and true the plethora of poisons that humankind has used for millenia to kill each other.
Should one suggest we don't have bombings in our subways because we haven't "cracked down" on firearms, as the antithesis of England? It is a non-sequitur both ways.
We don't know yet if this fellow was a law abiding licensed firearm owner. We do know he had a mocked up police uniform, and a mocked up police car -- that takes some planning, and arguably using these in the manner he has, gives one pause. Firearms legislation designed to make it more difficult or impossible for law abiding licensed firearms owners to possess or use a particular firearm, in this case the ignominiously and obscurely named assault rifle, is nothing more than political hay.
There are no quick fixes, no simple solutions, to stopping violence and murder, which is what I presume to be the real goal.
Should one suggest we don't have bombings in our subways because we haven't "cracked down" on firearms, as the antithesis of England? It is a non-sequitur both ways.
We don't know yet if this fellow was a law abiding licensed firearm owner. We do know he had a mocked up police uniform, and a mocked up police car -- that takes some planning, and arguably using these in the manner he has, gives one pause. Firearms legislation designed to make it more difficult or impossible for law abiding licensed firearms owners to possess or use a particular firearm, in this case the ignominiously and obscurely named assault rifle, is nothing more than political hay.
There are no quick fixes, no simple solutions, to stopping violence and murder, which is what I presume to be the real goal.
I strongly agree. Today my heart is in my homeland Nova Scotia but my head says my wife and I are safer in rural Oklahoma.
I was born in Truro, raised at the south end of Rawdon Hills (about 90 km from Truro). My Mum's side - grand parents, grand Aunts and Uncles, several generations back are buried near Belmont (about 25 km from Portapique). Buried my Dad same cemetary last May. So I know the area.
12 friggen hours to put that spineless, selfish animal down. These days Canadians love to rail on America and the violence but I have confidence somebody like that won't drive around here doing that tonight for that long. As you said, less likely down here. Bad guys face a random unknown of who can stop them, could be any good guy with a gun. And law men and women do what's needed, when needed. Case in point three years ago in Ok a Trooper took out a fleeing murderer by shooting his AR through window on a back road.
Perhaps the antigun push has made Mounties complacent - surely the bad guys can't have guns or be able to do much with them because they are controlled. Meanwhile because guns are commonplace I suppose cops down here are more on edge. Good and bad with that.
Here I am with my concealed carry sitting on dresser, shotgun behind door, AR and others ready in safe. Does that make me invincible? Nope, I'm not Batman. But at least I have a chance to protect wife and myself if some whacko randomly picks our place out in boonies before a Deputy or Trooper puts him down.
I'll say again - my heart is in NS tonight, thinking of innocent lost.
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I agree but with one exception. There is one form of gun legislation that can stop this from happening. It's called arming the victim. Allow victims the means to protect themselves and monsters like this guy might have been stopped early.
Moe
It's a terrible shame what happened and a lot of families will be changed forever and never know why? The firearms community should rally around these families somehow if possible.
It appears that a lot of planning went into it, with a disguise and modified car and all. I really can't think of any more rules that could have prevented something as thought out and sinister from happening. If he's dead now, we will never know his true reasoning and or how disturbed he was, just media speculation from this point on. Too bad I feel our government will go after low hanging fruit with this as ammo sort of speak .
There's an old, old, old quote " A sword never kills anybody, it is a tool in the killers hand" Lucius Annaeus Seneca, Ad Lucilium Epistulae Morales, Letter 87, c.63-65
Even way back then they understood it was a persons intentions to do harm, not the tool they chose to do said harm with that is responsible.
I am terribly sorry for the families that are going through the sorrow now as a result of this senseless and cowardly act. My thoughts and prayers are with them.
It appears that a lot of planning went into it, with a disguise and modified car and all. I really can't think of any more rules that could have prevented something as thought out and sinister from happening. If he's dead now, we will never know his true reasoning and or how disturbed he was, just media speculation from this point on. Too bad I feel our government will go after low hanging fruit with this as ammo sort of speak .
There's an old, old, old quote " A sword never kills anybody, it is a tool in the killers hand" Lucius Annaeus Seneca, Ad Lucilium Epistulae Morales, Letter 87, c.63-65
Even way back then they understood it was a persons intentions to do harm, not the tool they chose to do said harm with that is responsible.
I am terribly sorry for the families that are going through the sorrow now as a result of this senseless and cowardly act. My thoughts and prayers are with them.
