A suggestion to those who enjoy bashing the French Army...

nairbg said:
You'd be hard pressed to find a more hard-core group of soldiers than Canada's Royal 22nd Regiment, the Van Doo's.:)
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I can tell you this:

1) Is the only french speaking regiment 'undefeated'
2) World renouned, probably why they were called ''Vandoos'' instead of a french pronounciation of 22
3) First Commonwealth unit to use Tomahawks & Shotgun in WW1 trench warfare against the germans (Which, from regimental history, were terified of the french-canadians.)
4) Has her majesty Queen Elizabeth II herself as colonel of the regiment
5) Affiliated to 5eRI (France) & the Royal Welsh fusiliers.
6) Lots more...

Yeah, they work differently than english-canadian regiments because it is fun to be in that regiment & commraderie second to none..Also, when it is time to play, they play hard & they get the job done!

Want to pick on someone, pick on the Germans, they lost the war, TWICE! not France.

Airborn_69
 
And now let's celebrate the Chauchat!!! :p ;)

Machine_gun_Chauchat.jpg
 
Claven2 said:
Something I'd like to see before I kick off, in addition to the Canadian memorial at Vimy, is the Verdun Ossuary. The remains of 130,000 unknown soldiers of Verdun lie in these vaults. It is an appalling sight that stays with you for life.
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I was in Hiroshima, at the ground zero memorial, on the 25th Anniversary of the bomb, and the experience humbled me for years afterward. I couldn't imagine anything affecting my life like that ever again. But when I visited the Ossuary many years later in Verdun - it changed my life. I can still see the elderly men, standing at the gates, with tears streaming down their faces. Very, very sobering.
 
Verboten!

Gibbs505 said:
Even better is "Paths of Glory". Very good movie!
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That film was abolutely forbidden from projection on French screens until late in the seventies. The French government feared it could do harm to the general's (Mangin, I think) family reputation...:confused: :rolleyes:
PP.
 
Airborn_69 said:
Humm...Very unreliable weapon during its time if I remember correctly :)
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Actually, the 8mm Lebel version worked well once they redesigned the magazines to keep the mud out (mostly) and it the operator was diligent about cleaning the mechanism (much like today's AR15 - it only works well when professional soldiers keep it clean).

The .30-06 version sucked as it fed those rounds poorly and the actions wasn't designed for those pressures. American forces HATED the Chauchat, but the French liked it well enough in 8mm Lebel. Beat the hell out of advancing on a German maxim position with only a 3 shot Berthier in your hands :eek:
 
Verdun

Grouse Man said:
Didn't the French lose something like 150,000 men in one battle

total casualties (both sides) were over 1 MILLION!
However the Germans had no intention of taking Verdun. Falkenhyn's plan was to "bleed the French Army white" , so the reserves were not used. The Germans could have reached Paris if it had been intended to be an actual breakthrough. Unfortunately bleeding the french also did the same for the germans. In a fashion it did work as the french high command was intent on not giving up any ground. Petain was the only French general with a brain. He didn't mind giving up ground as long as he could wear out the germans and then counterattack.

I cannot imagine what it must have been like. The generals sitting in their chateaus miles behind the lines and sending the troops to attack machine guns through the mud, shellholes and filth of the Western front.

The British generals had the same mindset. To get that side, try "The Blood Tub" by Jonathan Walker. General Gough and the Battle of Bullencourt, or The Somme, or British Butchers and Bunglers.

then there was the stupid idea of the "Pals Battalions" where entire villages in Britain would be full of widows as the result of one battle.

Interesting fact. Haig NEVER visited a hospital to see the result of his handiwork.

As for the chauchat. The AEF had to double it's order for them since most wound up in shellholes or wrapped around trees. Then there was our STUPIDITY of Pershing picking the chauchat for the AEF when we already had Lewis guns. OR our chief of Ordnance, General Crozier, who HATED Lewis and blocked equipping the AEF with more of them. (After the war, a Congressional hearing put paid to his career)
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Thanks for the recommendation Claven. Will be sure to look into it. I recomment "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer, a German WW2 vet.

It is true the French are underestimated. It just so happened that they had bad leadership on many levels, but also they had many excellent generals. I have read that at the Somme, the French used much more progressive infantry tactics. The British were quick learners and adopted the small raiding parties as well as advance and cover strategies. The Brits, IMHO can never be too proud of their land army, because before ww1, they were somewhat lacking, because so much was concentrateed on the excellent navy.

Overall, the Germans have almost always been the superior in tactics and armaments (esp those dreadful howitzers!)
 
tiriaq said:
Or a 10 shot Lebel whose tubular magazine you loaded with loose rounds, one at a time.
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That WAS ridiculous. The Lebel necessitated an annular ring be cut into the bases of each case and the safety of the entire system relied upon the spire point of the bullet resting in the annular channel of the round ahead of it.

French manuals of the day warn the soldier to carefully seat each spire into the groove on the base in front of it during loading to prevent accidental firing of the fulminate primer :eek:

So not only did the Poilu have to seek cover and reload for up to a minute after every 10 shots, he also had to calm his nerves and take care not to ignite his rifle's magazine by crazily jamming rounds in.

Lucky for the French, the Lebel was virtually obsoleted before hostilities even started and the Mle 1907 des Tirailleurs Sénégalais was easily adapted into the Mle1907-15 Mannlicher-Berthier. True, it only held 3 shots, but it could be reloaded on the run in about 3 seconds with little care taken during the process. The Berthier, while ugly and hampered by a less than ideal choice of caliber (so as not to complicate ammo logistics), was a far superior system to the 1886/93 "la belle". The franch liked the Mle16 modification so much that it was still the most widely issued rifle at the onset of WW2 while many other countries of the day had moved on to different rifle designs.
 
John Sukey said:
Interesting fact. Haig NEVER visited a hospital to see the result of his handiwork.
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Ah yes... Butcher Haig. Too bad he wasn't Smith-Dorien who in a way rare among British WW1 Generals, seemed to have his head more squarely on his shoulders... of course all of them were just different shades of bad...
 
Claven2 said:
PS: Stevo... this thread might actually make the 2nd page without being locked again!!! lol...
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Who would have thought that possible?!:)

Regarding WWI generals. I've seen a few interesting documentaries recently. The number of generals KIA on both sides added up over 300, so they weren't all having their nails done at the chateau.

The concept of Haig as a butcher or irresponsible general was a later interpretation. His men did not regard him that way.
 
Stevo said:
The concept of Haig as a butcher or irresponsible general was a later interpretation. His men did not regard him that way.
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That's likely b/c they hated Sir John French even more, as well, brigade and corps generals were often blamed by the troops when fault laid farther up the line ;)
 
Regarding WWI generals. I've seen a few interesting documentaries recently. The number of generals KIA on both sides added up over 300, so they weren't all having their nails done at the chateau.
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I saw that doc! I couldnt believe that so many GENERALS died! I never knew they operated to close to the front.
 
the Brigade and Corps commanders would all have been General Officers in that era. I know at Tannenberg, the 2nd Russian Army lost all but 3 of its senior officers, including the Russian commanding general who committed suicide at the end of the battle. The French doctrine of Elan at the outset of the war had a throwback to the American civil war where brigade commanders drew out their swager sticks and led charges on enemy entranched positions. Apalling stuff.

Only the GHQ headquarters general staff officers were removed from the front in comfy chateaus. Generally about 30 miles or so behind the lines.
 
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