A Toddlers First *First BB's fired!*

canadian hunter312 said:
Wow, awesome job! How'd you get the stock two tone like that? Laminate different colors before carving?


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I looked into laminating my own colours, but it's a mondo job. Decided to just by a blank chunk from Boyd's. It was $40. It was 2 1/2 inches thick and way bigger than I needed. I've got lots left over to make crafts out of. I made him his first skinning knife out of an old circular saw blade while I was at it.


 
canadian hunter312 said:
Guys, it's common sense...HE WILL BE UNDER MY SUPERVISION WHILE USING WHATEVER HE ENDS UP GETTING. He has shot my .22 and 17hmr, but they're simply too big and awkward. And yes, as I apparently need to state the obvious, he was wearing eyes and ears with me supporting the firearm. He's hooked.

He's aware of no finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot and it's actually comical observing him keeping his trigger finger straight on the "receiver" of his nerf guns until it's time to shoot. He knows guns kill, what can and cannot be shot, and has seen multiple kills and dressing of small game and the slaughtering of dozens of chickens. Even pretending to shoot the house, vehicles or pets with a nerf gun results in that little guy scolding me. But, he does want to shoot turkey and deer!



I'm not too keen on a big and heavy gun as I don't want him limited to bench shooting. The Crosman 760 does seem like a good one as it'll take both BB's and pellets and will allow for basement shooting. It's not too long at 33" and just under 3 lbs so he'll be able to shoulder it. The Daisy model 10 and red ryder are both light and short, but the increased risk factor of BB's has me questioning them and apparently the newer ones are mostly plastic and junk compared to older models.

What about a Crosman 1377 or 1322 with the shoulder stock? Can anyone tell me the overall length with the stock attached? I used a 1322 well into my teens so if I go that route he'll use it for 10-15 years or longer.


.22lrguy, good advice on the reactive targets I hadn't thought of that. As for scope vs iron sights, did any of the youngsters try using iron sights or did you start them off with a scope? I assume a red dot would be easier to start with?


If anyone is looking, Cabela's has the rascal on sale at $30 off plus a $30 mail in rebate. I'm considering buying one for personal use until he's old enough. I think a pellet gun is a better idea for now...
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Hey CH312~I've read this thread a couple of times now, and everyone seems supportive/non-judgmental. I hope that's the way you're interpreting the comments, certainly the way I meant the things I said. Anyhow, I highlighted a couple of things I'd like to touch on.

1. "he knows guns kill"~I suspect he could does know that in principle, and could rhyme-off the game you've successfully hunted...but remember they're still pretty big concepts for a 3 year old mind to process. In my honest opinion, I would take no comfort in a 3 year old's understanding of pretty much anything, especially guns/hunting. However, you've made it clear it's a 110% supervision thing, so that's that.

2. "bench shooting"~just a practical thing with little kids, as even small/light guns can be tough to manage shooting offhand/lining-up sights, etc. I built a light, portable bench, but as an option, shot prone. Short/light guns are easier to aim at toes, so he/you can concentrate on everything else knowing the gun is resting safely. Concentrating on that stuff means more hits/more fun! As strength/familiarity grow in time, you can revisit.

3. 1377 with a shoulder stock~I have one and can measure, but suspect the LOP may be too long for such a little fella. A little finicky to load, you'd have to pump it/#### it. Anyhow, happy to measure tonight if you like.

4. The Rascal~started with open sights (which are very decent peep sights on the Rascal) and only moved to small, low/fixed power scope when the idea of pest control with that gun surfaced. (EGW actually make a rail for it! :) ) Red dots are cool, but inexpensive ones are always fuzzy making the target actually harder to see. A nice, clear little scope~the kids really liked using it.
 
Something to consider...most kids are constantly putting their fingers in their mouths. As such, I would stay away from lead pellets and stick to BBs (with suitable eye protection) or non-lead pellets. Personally I went with the Crosman 760 which can do both. At backyard distances it's pretty accurate and power levels can be adjusted to suit the distance.
 
.22LRGUY said:
I have to be 100% honest, the words "toddler" and "really wants a gun" sort of made my jaw drop. I think "turning 4" doesn't really rank a child much higher than 2 or 3 from a maturity standpoint, though I applaud your desire to want what's best for him at this age. I think the truth is~he's simply too young to shoot anything "real" responsibly, be it an airsoft, BB gun, lead pellet gun except under the most strict supervision and if that's the case, I wouldn't get too hung-up gun weights/difficulty of cycling the action etc. You'll be doing that for him anyway.

I've been down this road with all 3 of my kids, 2 nieces, 3 nephews, and allot of their friends and I've learned allot about attention span, what to expect, etc. Everything from archery gear, slingshots, air rifles (BB and pellet), air pistols, airsoft, Cooey 39 22, Cooey 75 22, Savage Rascal, etc. etc. Out of all that, I've learned;

1. Attention span even when everything is going perfectly~VERY SHORT
2. The Savage Rascal and a CO2-powered single shot .22 air rifle~both the biggest hits. Why? Scoped, right LOP, easy to load, shot off a rest at close range reactive targets, not loud.
3. Ammo for 22s~always the most quiet, only make sure the scope is zeroed for it. Used to be only CB longs, but now CCI Quiet-22...even Aguila Colibri. No matter what gun/ammo combo~eye and ear protection
4. Targets~reactive targets only, kids don't care about tight groups. Popping balloons, gongs that go "ting" when they're hit? That's a different story!

I have a bouquet of lever action BB-guns leaning in the corner of my lock box. I've always had a soft spot for them, could never get any kid excited about them. Maybe a watchful parent/uncle takes the "mischief" thrill-factor out of Daisy BB gun ownership. lol

Anyhow, not judging in any way/shape or form..just suggesting the little fella maybe ought to be using your gear with you helping...and that something like a Savage Rascal would not only fit his physical size, but he'll be able to operate it himself under strict supervision. Accurate little rifles too. Once scoped, if he's still keen a couple of years down the road, you can run faster ammo through it and the satisfaction level should still be there. When my daughter hit 12 and got her hunter's apprentice license, it's our green Savage Rascal she wanted to take when I visited a farmer friend to rid his barn of pigeons. I had at least 1 other 22 that fit her better (Anschutz 1450) but the comfort/ability level with the Savage was very bad news for the pigeons. 5 years later, that same farmer still tells me how amazed he is at how she never missed. My kids now range from 5'2"-6'4" and they won't let me sell that Savage Rascal. I suspect I'll be teaching my grandkids to shoot with it.

Good luck, and safe shooting no matter what you decide.
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That's some good information, thank you for sharing your experiences. I have a 2 year old and I was wondering when and how I would introduce him to real firearms.

Thanks again!

MD
 
Mister Donut said:
That's some good information, thank you for sharing your experiences. I have a 2 year old and I was wondering when and how I would introduce him to real firearms.

Thanks again!

MD
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My pleasure MD! As a 2-finger typist, it took a while...but teaching youngsters to shoot is something I really love to do. Hoped someone might be interested in reading.
 
I taught my 5 year old son to shoot with my modified Remington 77 Airmaster. Basically the same thing as this:

https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Crosman/047_2100.html

The barrel is rifled, so you'll get more out of it than the 760. The one problem with both is that the trigger is crap. It takes quite a bit of effort to pull the trigger for a little finger which will affect the accuracy. Not the end of the world, but could make it a bit frustrating. That was after taking it fully apart and polishing up the trigger assembly / sear, it was still a mess. Probably about a 6 lb trigger pull, and really mushy and grainy.

I picked up the AM-77 from Specialty Shooting Sports Outdoors, while it was on sale for $40. It was in non-PAL, but I pulled it all open and tuned it up, removing the valve port restrictor plate and filling in a pressure release in the valve got it shooting 8.6gr H&N FTTs at 685 fps. Great buy if you see one cheap and want a multi-pump pneumatic.
 
Onagoth said:
lol....the first thing my 4 year old did when I handed him a nerf gun was shoot his brother in the face
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Lol. Yeah I'd had that fear, but my guy had grown up watching me clean and work with my guns, and the way I was so careful not to sweep anyone (in an 800 sqft house that can be harder than it sounds). He just seemed to follow suit. He swept me a couple times, but as we'd talked about before I handed it to him, a sweep means it goes away for the day. Shooting at or near someone means it goes away for a week. I've stuck to that rule and have never needed the week.
 
Just measured my 1377. 15 3/4" LOP. The stocks are fairly inexpensive so it wouldn't be a big deal to chop one and shorten it. I know some adults do this as 15 3/4" is a bit long for most shooters. I do agree that the 1377/22 would be a good pistol that would last for generations and is infinitely customizable. Can't mod them over 500 fps though as they are then deemed a restricted pistol and it makes no difference whether you make it into a carbine. Once a pistol always a pistol.

If you did go the 13xx route the first purchase I would make would be a steel breech so that optics can easily be mounted and as an added benefit they seal way better than the plastic job they come stock with. I own three and all wear steel breeches (1377,1322, 2289 backpacker). Two are carbines and I left one in pistol form with upgraded sights.
 
Thanks Tinner. That does seem like a long LOP and the stock would definitely need to be modified. I was just browsing pics and am trying to think of a way to have an adjustable LOP while still looking good. I'm also wondering what the balance is like on these rigs when compared to a rifle.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
Many teenagers and even some adults are too immature to handle firearms and age is merely one factor in determining if an individual is capable of using a firearm safely or not. He does not point is nerf guns at anyone or the pets without asking us first. Yes, we have "spied" on him when they're playing alone.


I hadn't thought of BB's and their tendency to ricochet. I was thinking of a BB gun for ease of use and low cost, but ricochets aren't good for anyone. I suppose the safest route with BB's would be a large pellet trap or big square of foam with plywood backing. Can soft non plated lead BB's be purchased or would any size lead shot work with lower chances of ricochets?

I assume a pump air rifle to shoot pellets would be best? If so, what's the smallest and easiest to pump? I'll be with him at all times, but he's independent and would prefer pumping and loading himself.
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Best pellet/bb trap ive found is rubber mulch in a box. I use a tupperware tote, filled it with rubber mulch and gone nuts. Went thru 5 co2 cartridges (21 per mag x 3 per co2) and was able to recover every single BB using a magnet.
 
I started my son out at age 4 on a Red Ryder BB Gun. Reinforced gun safety and all that good stuff.
Age 5-6 he was shooting a Mossberg 715T decently with a red dot.
Around age 7 I've let him shoot single shot with my .40 STI and MK18 AR-15.
I guess it all depends on the maturity of your child.
I had mine cleaning handguns (helping) at age 3.
 
Grock-co said:
Surprising how many people treat guns as toys,
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I just reviewed this thread and found ZERO examples of such nonsense. Matter of fact, I read nothing but responsible firearm use and how safety is paramount.




I decided I was overthinking this for someone so young. I was going to grab a Red Ryder, but it seems too big and heavy so a Daisy Buck 105 is on the way, along with a Savage Rascal for dad to play with until he's proven himself.
 
Talk about fast shipping! I was pleasantly surprised to see the mail lady knocking on the door today.

At 10ft he managed to put all 25 shots into a 10" circle on the makeshift target we made together. We need to work on his shooting form, but so far I am very impressed. Most surprising part of the whole experience was HE asked for safety glasses before we started, another item I don't have yet as the gun arrived much sooner than expected. Despite an adult pair falling off his face and the constant messing with them, he did not complain once about wearing them. Little bugger even asked where my glasses were!

1) I need to make a good target
2) Does anyone sell clear glasses small enough? I can only find sunglasses in his size.
3) Besides balloons, any good reactive targets for shooting indoors?
 
I found that with your own kids if they are trained to be safty conscience you generally have no issues. It's their friends you have to worry about.
 
+1 on the Nerf gun, whats the rush. Be prepared to take it away for good the first time he points it at someone or thing he shouldn't and give it back when he's old enough to understand.
 
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