A Tokarev in 10mm auto!?!?

NOS, did they have mags for sale in the Czech Republic?? We need Mags!

Unfortunately, no extra mags there either. I think modded m57 mags is the way to go.

Answered my own question about whether these are NOS or new - paperwork that came with the pistol lists a manufacture/proofing date in 1996.

Finally got mine...Serial #848 marked P10 on the slide. registration shows Model M-93 manufacture date 1996


Hey neighbour ;) 849
 
Unfortunately, no extra mags there either. I think modded m57 mags is the way to go.

Answered my own question about whether these are NOS or new - paperwork that came with the pistol lists a manufacture/proofing date in 1996.
Let me know how those moded M57 mags work out! Gonna be some work!
 
How are these surplus? Which state army or police organization in Europe ever issued a 10 mm service pistol?
Obviously they decided against it, which is why we get them!!! I believe when they said surplus, didn't necessarily mean from Mil/LE, but surplus from Zastava! Likely a project they made or a contract they didn't win/cancelled order etc.
 
Range report and slow-mo video!
*spoiler* I quite enjoy mine, no buyers remorse this time.
Re-reading what I wrote before posting, it looks like a pretty negative take, but please keep in mind that every little aspect I DIDN'T mention was skipped over because it worked perfectly.

First things first, here's the video. As you will see, this thing is quite small and snappy. You can slow down the video even more by hitting the settings cog in the bottom right of the player.
This is with a moderately tight grip, no conscious effort to get back on target quickly.

edited video link, added real-time before slow-mo start

Yep those are full power loads, nope I don't recommend them. Shot my first mag with leather gloves, a thick jacket, and face covered to avoid getting Kentucky Ballistics'd.
Hornady Custom 10mm 180gr. XTP HP, 1275 fps, 650 ft.lbs.

As others have commented, the recoil spring is much weaker than expected. I personally wouldn't fire real 10mm loads without a buffer, but good news regarding that:
Found that a *thin* CZ Shadow recoil buffer can be cut to fit the guide rod, close enough hole diameter, but needs to be cut around the perimeter to fit within the dust cover. Forgive my ugly, rushed hack job of that part... The pic below is how it looked after 20rds of the above full-power, and 20rds of (mild) Sellier & Bellot. That alone should give you a pretty good idea of how hard that slide is slamming back...
You'll also notice the internal finish on the slide rails is very rough. I'm actually going to keep this as a practical positive as anything slowing that slide down can't hurt.

sERsLrO.jpg


No failure to feeds or fire using flat tip or hollow point bullets. Full-power loads ejected brass ~9 meters at 150 degrees rightwards from point of aim. Mild loads were ejected ~7 meters at around 120 degrees.
No signs of case-bulging in either load, seems to be staying locked tight long enough.

Ejection was indoobitably quite violent, see the pic below showing the extractor-marks left on the rims.**Dents were probably caused by the shorter stroke length due to the buffer, no confirmation on that**
Initial impression has me thinking alu cased ammo might be a best bet. That ejector is working overtime, so plan on damaging brass rims or *possibly* sending your extractor claw to snap-city if using steel case. That last part is just speculation, I'm no gunsmith.

vNHUrhv.jpg


That's all I got for ya, happy tootin'
 
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is this gun stolen?


Range report and slow-mo video!
*spoiler* I quite enjoy mine, no buyers remorse this time.
Re-reading what I wrote before posting, it looks like a pretty negative take, but please keep in mind that every little aspect I DIDN'T mention was skipped over because it worked perfectly.

First things first, here's the video. As you will see, this thing is quite small and snappy. You can slow down the video even more by hitting the settings cog in the bottom right of the player.
This is with a moderately tight grip, no conscious effort to get back on target quickly.


Yep those are full power loads, nope I don't recommend them. Shot my first mag with leather gloves, a thick jacket, and face covered to avoid getting Kentucky Ballistics'd.
Hornady Custom 10mm 180gr. XTP HP, 1275 fps, 650 ft.lbs.

As others have commented, the recoil spring is much weaker than expected. I personally wouldn't fire real 10mm loads without a buffer, but good news regarding that:
Found that a *thin* CZ Shadow recoil buffer can be cut to fit the guide rod, close enough hole diameter, but needs to be cut around the perimeter to fit within the dust cover. Forgive my ugly, rushed hack job of that part... The pic below is how it looked after 20rds of the above full-power, and 20rds of (mild) Sellier & Bellot. That alone should give you a pretty good idea of how hard that slide is slamming back...
You'll also notice the internal finish on the slide rails is very rough. I'm actually going to keep this as a practical positive as anything slowing that slide down can't hurt.

sERsLrO.jpg


No failure to feeds or fire using flat tip or hollow point bullets. Full-power loads ejected brass ~9 meters at 150 degrees rightwards from point of aim. Mild loads were ejected ~7 meters at around 120 degrees.
No signs of case-bulging in either load, seems to be staying locked tight long enough.

Ejection was indoobitably quite violent, see the pic below showing the extractor-marks left on the rims.**Dents were probably caused by the shorter stroke length due to the buffer, no confirmation on that**
Initial impression has me thinking alu cased ammo might be a best bet. That ejector is working overtime, so plan on damaging brass rims or *possibly* sending your extractor claw to snap-city if using steel case. That last part is just speculation, I'm no gunsmith.

vNHUrhv.jpg


That's all I got for ya, happy tootin'
 
In my experience the most comfortable gun to shoot 10 mm is Glock 20 gen4 (or even gen3 still acceptable) , finishing 50 rounds with good follow up another 50 rounds .
 
Teetyetutum, I think it is likely understandable with full power loads that the brass gets beat up a bit! The recoil would be felt less with a two hand hold which is what I would definitely have to do, nice video thanks, how was the accuracy with a single handed hold?
Have you or anyone else tried .40 cal. Yet?
Thanks Bob
 
is this gun stolen?

Nope, but nothing to gain by posting my registered serial# on the public internet.

Teetyetutum, I think it is likely understandable with full power loads that the brass gets beat up a bit! The recoil would be felt less with a two hand hold which is what I would definitely have to do, nice video thanks, how was the accuracy with a single handed hold?
Have you or anyone else tried .40 cal. Yet?
Thanks Bob

Regarding accuracy, lets just say there's a reason I don't compete in pistol events lol. All I can say is the average offset from my call was about 15cm to the right at 20m, vertical POA=POI.
About the felt-recoil, this is going to sound really weird, but I found one-handed with a non-death-grip actually hurt less than tight with two hands. That recoil is more of a slap than a push, so I just don't resist and let it do its thing.
Haven't tried .40 and likely won't, to be honest. That extractor claw is taking a beating already by launching brass 10+ meters, personally not going to ask it to headspace as well.
 
Nope, but nothing to gain by posting my registered serial# on the public internet.



Regarding accuracy, lets just say there's a reason I don't compete in pistol events lol. All I can say is the average offset from my call was about 15cm to the right at 20m, vertical POA=POI.
About the felt-recoil, this is going to sound really weird, but I found one-handed with a non-death-grip actually hurt less than tight with two hands. That recoil is more of a slap than a push, so I just don't resist and let it do its thing.
Haven't tried .40 and likely won't, to be honest. That extractor claw is taking a beating already by launching brass 10+ meters, personally not going to ask it to headspace as well.
I hear ya, perhaps a stronger spring may slow down the slide and thereby be easier on the extractor and the brass,,, and frame!
 
I hear ya, perhaps a stronger spring may slow down the slide and thereby be easier on the extractor and the brass,,, and frame!

Using the Delta Elite as an example, they stiffened the recoil spring and the hammer spring to manage the power of the 10mm. On the Delta, once the hammer is locked back, the 23 lb spring does not "feel" that hard to cycle. But in the hammer down position it becomes much harder. Taking that into account I don't think that a simple recoil spring replacement on the M93/P10 is going to cut it. It will have to be a combination of the two like in the Delta Elite, and being that the Tokarev has a modular trigger group design when compared to the Delta, I'm not sure how much of a possibility it will be to upgrade the hammer spring as it will probably have a side effect of make the trigger super heavy..
 
Using the Delta Elite as an example, they stiffened the recoil spring and the hammer spring to manage the power of the 10mm. On the Delta, once the hammer is locked back, the 23 lb spring does not "feel" that hard to cycle. But in the hammer down position it becomes much harder. Taking that into account I don't think that a simple recoil spring replacement on the M93/P10 is going to cut it. It will have to be a combination of the two like in the Delta Elite, and being that the Tokarev has a modular trigger group design when compared to the Delta, I'm not sure how much of a possibility it will be to upgrade the hammer spring as it will probably have a side effect of make the trigger super heavy..
Why was the hammer spring replaced, I don't see the connection with the two unless they were getting light primer strikes, or did they use the hammer and heavier spring to also slow down the slide?
 
Why was the hammer spring replaced, I don't see the connection with the two unless they were getting light primer strikes, or did they use the hammer and heavier spring to also slow down the slide?

They were using the force of the hammer spring as an additional source of resistance that the slide would have to work against during recoil. It's one of the reasons the Delta Elite has a relatively heavy trigger pull and it's not advisable to adjust the trigger pull by replacing the hammer spring with a lighter one as normally done to a 1911 in 45 ACP.
 
They were using the force of the hammer spring as an additional source of resistance that the slide would have to work against during recoil. It's one of the reasons the Delta Elite has a relatively heavy trigger pull and it's not advisable to adjust the trigger pull by replacing the hammer spring with a lighter one as normally done to a 1911 in 45 ACP.
Ok, so we could change the recoils spring to a heavier one, even slightly heavier would be of some help!
 
Yes, but the trigger in the P10 is already pretty heavy.

To add to this, the slide stop may turn into a weak link with a heavier recoil spring. See below is the the P10 on the right vs a shadow slide stop on the left.
Might want to consider the "never drop the slide on an empty chamber" lore if upping the recoil spring weight from stock.

0AdlXac.jpg
 
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