A Tragic No. 4

Blastattack

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
145   0   0
Location
Winnipeg MB
I recently visited TNT in Regina and came across a tragic No. 4. It was a sporterized Longbranch No. 4 MKI (yes, MKI) dated 1941, serial 1L###x. Sadly this rifle has been butchered with drilling and tapping, a No. 5 buttstock, cut down front wood, and some sort of plate welded to the rear of the action that emulates the top surface of a ground down P14/M1917. It may or may not have had extra sights attached to the barrel. Also grossly overpriced at around $600. A very sad fate for an incredibly rare rifle. I didn’t take any pictures, just handled and felt sad for the poor thing. There was also a 1942 Savage MKI that had seen sporterization and refurb, but also around the same price.
 
It happens. I encountered a very nicely sported Lee Enfield. Single shot .222. Rebarreled, restocked, drilled and tapped. Someone had put a lot of time and effort into it. It had been a 1933 No. 4 troop trials rifle.
 
bubba will never understand the horrors of his actions. Best to love the rifle for what it was and what it currently is. All while doing your best to prevent future horrors
 
bubba will never understand the horrors of his actions. Best to love the rifle for what it was and what it currently is. All while doing your best to prevent future horrors

One serious bit of reality needs to put forward here.

At the time those rifles were disposed of by dozens of different governments, from all over the globe, there were millions of them available, of every different type, from every manufacturer in the world.

Many of the identical actions had been sourced from the same manufacturers, to be made into not only very functional but beautiful sporters, by hundreds of different small gunsmithing operations as well as large international corporations. Purpose built sporting rifles were well beyond the budgets of most citizens of the times.

Think back a bit further to "The guns that won the west." Most people believe it was done with Colt single action pistols and lever action rifles. Hardly, the average Sodbuster and settlers used shotguns more than any other type of firearm. They seldom owned anything else.

When military surplus rifles were made available, at affordable prices, people weren't interested in collecting them. This was their first and maybe only chance to get a firearm that was powerful enough to extend their range to more useful distances.

All of the extra wood and stock ferrules/bayonet lugs, sight protectors, etc were surplus to their needs and frankly took away from the sporting rifle appearance that was the fad of the day.

A huge and highly profitable industry sprung up around "sporterizing" mostly very functional and reliable rifles/handguns, whose fate would have been the smelters.

Many of the people that bought those rifles on a whim, just squirreled them away and forgot about them. Those are the little treasures we search out today.

Then there were the home workshop aficionados. They would purchase the best that was offered and start cutting almost immediately. Often the rifles were factory fresh and floated in preservative, then wrapped in protective coverings for long term storage.

It was less than five years ago that I purchased a cut down mod 1935 Brazilian Mauser barreled action and complete receiver. $200. The rifle had been purchased in the mid seventies from a local gunshop for $75.

I bought this from the original purchaser and he had taken off the stock, burned it in his wood stove, thrown away all of the metal bits not needed for his sporter build.

A bud of his, with a lathe, had cut off and recrowned the bbl at 24 inches. Then cut off the bolt handle and welded another with a more pleasant contour in place. That's where the build stopped. Life got in the way and hunting/fishing weren't as attractive anymore.

He was quite smug about the fact that he had almost tripled his money, until I pointed out to him that he had missed out on a 20 bagger, if he had just left it alone.

All said and done, you should thank all of those "BUBBAS" for helping to preserve our hunting heritage and inadvertently preserving many pieces of history in a useful manner.

I sometimes cringe at what's happened to many of those firearms. Then I reflect on what's happened to many more of them that met their fate at the smelters.
 
I remember Century sold mint to new in the grease 1917 Enfield 3006 rifles $69.00
They had crates of them and gunsmith were converting them to sporting rifles in various calibre 's
 
I remember Century sold mint to new in the grease 1917 Enfield 3006 rifles $69.00
They had crates of them and gunsmith were converting them to sporting rifles in various calibre 's

Century contracted gunsmiths in England to turn thousands of P14s into magnums, mostly 300WM and 7mm Rem Mag. They had the P17s in 30-06 and if memory serves 308Win/243Win.

Towards the end, they only had the magnum cartridge converts available. The Magnum rifles had their magwells made flush/lengthened and new barrels installed, along with new Beech stocks. The rear sight ears were ground off and the receivers were recontoured, drilled and tapped for scope mounts. I believe similar work was done to the P17s. Of course, these were much more expensive than the simple conversions that only had the stocks cut down.

When those unmolested P17s and P14s were being sold for $69, they were pretty much the last of the lend lease rifles that came back from the UK and I believe France. The US gave both nations hundreds of thousands of P17s right after WWI and again during the thirties on their lend lease programs.

Believe it or not, they had a tough time selling them and that's why they "sporterized" so many of them for the commercial market.

The commercial sporters were actually quite good as far as function and acceptable accuracy goes.

I managed to get in on a deal through International, back in the day. I had to purchase a dozen sporters and a dozen of each pattern surplus rifles.

The sporters sold very quickly at a very decent profit.

The full wood surplus rifles ended up in a safe for close to ten years, because I felt they would eventually become popular. They did and I sold all of them off. They were fine rifles, All of the p17s were made by Winchester and all of the P14s were made by Remington. All were dated 1914-1915 and all had serial numbered bolts, which indicated they had been issued in the UK. None of them had broad arrow C markings. All appeared to be unissued. They cost me $45 each.
 
I just picked up a sporterized 41 Longbranch. Serial 14xx, round cocking piece and O L marked bolt with matching numbers. Sits in a very nice montecarlo stock. The bad is the barrel has been cut and a new front site put on. My options are rebarrell and new wood or use the parts on another LB when I find one. What do you do with a BUBBA. Two options, pass it along or rebuild. Currently rebuilding a Savage #4 mk2/3 (F) FTR. Front band and two swivels left.
 
I restored a cut No. 4 barrel. Cut the front end off a scrapper barrel. Turned down the muzzle of the cut barrel, bored out the rear of the scrapper's front end. Sleeved them together, silver brazed the joint. Had bored out the rifling in the extension. Didn't look bad, just the seam line - and that was hidden under the stock and handguard. Allowed the rifle to be restored to original appearance, and was shootable. I suppose TIG welding the joint would allow a really good cosmetic repair, with no seam evident. Had a M-1 carbine barrel lengthened this was. You couldn't tell by looking at it. Back in the day, I "stretched" muzzleloading barrels; welded them. .The restoration could pass careful inspection in good light
 
I thought of welding a piece onto the barrel but I can’t seem to find a worn out #4 barrel. I probably have six shot out #1 barrels but I want the bayonet lugs. Like any rebuild it just takes time to find the parts. After I finish the Savage I will probably start the LB. I have everything except one band and forearm so I have to decide which route I am going with the Longbranch.
 
The last indifferent No. 4 barrel I have is the one featured in my thread on a .22 Lee Enfield project. It wouldn't work for a stretch, because it has pitting on the muzzle and the muzzle bevel.
Probably the easiest way to find a barrel is to watch for a doggy sporter. These are often worth more as parts than as rifles. Or, if it sported beyond restoration because of receiver alterations, just cut and crown it to get a muzzle section.
 
It's not just guns. A lot of military equipment, from trucks to tents to battledress jackets, was converted to civilian use. (Swords into ploughshares and all that) after the war. It was just raw material, readily available and cheaper than manufacturing from scratch. Nobody thought there was much difference between a barreled action that went directly from the factory into a sporting rifle and one that spent some time as part of a military rifle along the way.

Another way to look at it is that it's rarity that gives collectibles their value. If all of those ten-dollar Enfields had been preserved in military configuration in factory grease, they'd still be worth ten dollars.
 
Century contracted gunsmiths in England to turn thousands of P14s into magnums, mostly 300WM and 7mm Rem Mag. They had the P17s in 30-06 and if memory serves 308Win/243Win.

Towards the end, they only had the magnum cartridge converts available. The Magnum rifles had their magwells made flush/lengthened and new barrels installed, along with new Beech stocks. The rear sight ears were ground off and the receivers were recontoured, drilled and tapped for scope mounts. I believe similar work was done to the P17s. Of course, these were much more expensive than the simple conversions that only had the stocks cut down.

When those unmolested P17s and P14s were being sold for $69, they were pretty much the last of the lend lease rifles that came back from the UK and I believe France. The US gave both nations hundreds of thousands of P17s right after WWI and again during the thirties on their lend lease programs.

Believe it or not, they had a tough time selling them and that's why they "sporterized" so many of them for the commercial market.

The commercial sporters were actually quite good as far as function and acceptable accuracy goes.

I managed to get in on a deal through International, back in the day. I had to purchase a dozen sporters and a dozen of each pattern surplus rifles.

The sporters sold very quickly at a very decent profit.

The full wood surplus rifles ended up in a safe for close to ten years, because I felt they would eventually become popular. They did and I sold all of them off. They were fine rifles, All of the p17s were made by Winchester and all of the P14s were made by Remington. All were dated 1914-1915 and all had serial numbered bolts, which indicated they had been issued in the UK. None of them had broad arrow C markings. All appeared to be unissued. They cost me $45 each.

I have one of these Century rifles in 300 WM I bought "new" back in the day. It has been a great firearm and more recently upgraded the stock to a Boyds stock. At the time it was way cheaper than anything else available and expect it to still be harvesting game for family for years to come. At the same time I bought a DP rifle too for a few dollars and fitted the stock to a sporterized 303 from the local gun shop. Other than cutting the wood down the farmer hadnt changed any of the metal.
 
My Dad worked at the shipyard in Prince Rupert BC in WW2 building Liberty Ships.
In 1946 he worked on the barges taking American and Canadian Military equipment
and dumping it in the Ocean.
He said they dumped crates of American and Canadian Guns,parts,ammo, artillery shells,aircraft
parts from the air base in Terrace etc
 
Back
Top Bottom