about to start loading 9mm for mp9 using WSF and CAMPRO

Avenida

Avenida

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
62   0   1
So I got the dillon square deal B almost ready to start loading.
Got the powder, got the brass, primers bullets.

Powder is WSF, I will be using loading data for 124 GR bullets posted on the hodgon site. Bullets are CAMPRO round nose (plated bullets).

Starting min load by manufacturer is 4.0 grs, so that is what I am going to begin with.
I do not have a cronograph, I might buy one eventually but I will try to find a correct load, following these parameters while looing for pressure signs on the brass.


Questin is, how do I know I got a good load, is accuracy the only parameter I need to look for? What am I looking exactly on my way up?
I know max load (according to Hodgon sit) is 4.7 grs, so, what would ideal in a scenario where a chronograph is not available?

Thanks in advance.
 
I run 124gr RN and RNHB-TP Berry's plated with 4.7gr WSF in mixed brass (primers are CCI500/Rem 1.5/Win SP) OAL is 1.125".

4.0 gr would not cycle my wife's M&P, 4.3 would cycle it unreliably (eject most of the time but seldom strips a new cartridge. 4.3gr was more reliable in my CZ), 4.7gr is 100% reliable so far in the M&P. It is not maximum for a plated bullet, lead perhaps (are you looking at cast lead data?). Max for 124gr jacketed is normally around 5.3gr WSF (CHECK YOUR MANUAL before taking that at face value). For plated bullets the 'rule of thumb' is normally 'medium charges' for jacketed bullets can be considered max for plated. Some plated bullets like the Berry's TP are thick plated and made for higher velocities (like .38 Super or 9mm major). That said, lots of guys run plated bullets with jacketed bullet data.

4.7gr with the OAL and bullets mentioned above is very mild - I just make minor PF with that load (1020fps average).
 
kayaker1 said:
I run 124gr RN and RNHB-TP Berry's plated with 4.7gr WSF in mixed brass (primers are CCI500/Rem 1.5/Win SP) OAL is 1.125".

4.0 gr would not cycle my wife's M&P, 4.3 would cycle it unreliably (eject most of the time but seldom strips a new cartridge. 4.3gr was more reliable in my CZ), 4.7gr is 100% reliable so far in the M&P. It is not maximum for a plated bullet, lead perhaps (are you looking at cast lead data?). Max for 124gr jacketed is normally around 5.3gr WSF (CHECK YOUR MANUAL before taking that at face value). For plated bullets the 'rule of thumb' is normally 'medium charges' for jacketed bullets can be considered max for plated. Some plated bullets like the Berry's TP are thick plated and made for higher velocities (like .38 Super or 9mm major). That said, lots of guys run plated bullets with jacketed bullet data.

4.7gr with the OAL and bullets mentioned above is very mild - I just make minor PF with that load (1020fps average).
Click to expand...

Yes I am looking at the published data (powder company) for that specific grain weight (cast lead, not FMJ).
I decided to start low, due to 4.7 being the max load for the same bullet in FMJ, so it looks like I'll have to do some experimentation and see how it cycles.

So, according to the rule of thumb for plated bullets, if the max charge for FMJ is 5.3, then the max for plated would be close to 5. Correct?
 
My criteria for load development in semis is that the loads cycle properly, are accurate enough for their intended purpose (ipsc ) and by extension make 125pf. I have no reason to push it faster than that. Not pushing the envelope also enables me to buy lots of cheap "once fired" mixed headstamp brass and run it without worries. Ymmv
 
I started with the max powder for my combo (4.2gr tite-group/fmj 124gr), and they worked flawlessly.
Felt a little hotter than most factory ammo, but nothing crazy.

Guns work, so no more adjusting for me.
Good choice on the Square Deal btw!
 
kman300 said:
My criteria for load development in semis is that the loads cycle properly, are accurate enough for their intended purpose (ipsc ) and by extension make 125pf. I have no reason to push it faster than that. Not pushing the envelope also enables me to buy lots of cheap "once fired" mixed headstamp brass and run it without worries. Ymmv
Click to expand...

Exactly, same thought process here! thanks.
 
metcalfe said:
I started with the max powder for my combo (4.2gr tite-group/fmj 124gr), and they worked flawlessly.
Felt a little hotter than most factory ammo, but nothing crazy.

Guns work, so no more adjusting for me.
Good choice on the Square Deal btw!
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Yes, the square deal B is a very good value!
 
what is the best way to determine the AOL of my barrel? empty case, no primer, size the case, put a bullet in with no crimp and slide it in and see if it touches the lands?
 
Avenida said:
Yes I am looking at the published data (powder company) for that specific grain weight (cast lead, not FMJ).
I decided to start low, due to 4.7 being the max load for the same bullet in FMJ, so it looks like I'll have to do some experimentation and see how it cycles.

So, according to the rule of thumb for plated bullets, if the max charge for FMJ is 5.3, then the max for plated would be close to 5. Correct?
Click to expand...

That is the 'rule of thumb', also recommended by Berry's. I am confused as you say you are looking at cast bullet data but then say the max charge for FMJ is 4.7gr? Your numbers are right according to Hogdon but switched around. I don't have access to manuals now but Hogdon online data centre confirms this: max for cast is 4.7gr, max for FMJ is 5.3. Both at max OAL of 1.169"
Be aware that the 9mmLuger is pressure sensitive to reductions in case volume because its a small volume, higher pressure cartridge. For example my Glock 26 would not cycle a particlar load with W231 with 100% reliability. I reduced the OAL by 0.7mm and that increased the pressure enough to make it reliable. In other words if you start loading warmer/hotter loads make sure you dont reduce OAL at random.
 
Last edited:
Avenida said:
what is the best way to determine the AOL of my barrel? empty case, no primer, size the case, put a bullet in with no crimp and slide it in and see if it touches the lands?
Click to expand...

Take the barrel out of the pistol and load up dummy rounds (no primer, no powder). Start long (say max OAL of 1.169") and drop it into the chamber to see if it fits. You can just pull these bullets later and load them again. Of course bullet profile makes a huge difference. You may be able to chamber an even longer OAL with a RN bullet but a FP with an abrupt ogive might only fit at a much shorter OAL. Some pistols have more generous chambers. My Glock would eat anything, my CZ has a short throat (CZ's do).

Chamber fit is only one part of the equation - feeding from the magazine is the other. Some pistols, with some bullet shapes will be more reliable within a certain small range of OAL. This is very important. You might find your pistol with certain bullets might feed anything, with another shape bullet may prefer them longer or shorter on the OAL spectrum.
 
Thank you.

Sorry for the confusion, I was looking at lead (which is maximun 4.7) and FMJ (max is 5.3). When I mentioned max charge for FMJ I was referring to your comment for medium load for FMJ, and I assumed that a max load for a plated bullet would be somewhere in the middle from 4.7 to 5.3.
Very good info thanks.


kayaker1 said:
That is the 'rule of thumb', also recommended by Berry's. I am confused as you say you are looking at cast bullet data but then say the max charge for FMJ is 4.7gr? Your numbers are right according to Hogdon but switched around. I don't have access to manuals now but Hogdon online data centre confirms this: max for cast is 4.7gr, max for FMJ is 5.3. Both at max OAL of 1.169"
Be aware that the 9mmLuger is pressure sensitive to reductions in case volume because its a small volume, higher pressure cartridge. For example my Glock 26 would not cycle a particlar load with W231 with 100% reliability. I reduced the OAL by 0.7mm and that increased the pressure enough to make it reliable. In other words if you start loading warmer/hotter loads make sure you dont reduce OAL at random.
Click to expand...
 
When I drop the bullet in the barrel, what am I looking for? the end of the cartridge should be flush with the beginning of the barrel and bullet should not be touching the lands, correct?

The gun in question is a MP9.



kayaker1 said:
Take the barrel out of the pistol and load up dummy rounds (no primer, no powder). Start long (say max OAL of 1.169") and drop it into the chamber to see if it fits. You can just pull these bullets later and load them again. Of course bullet profile makes a huge difference. You may be able to chamber an even longer OAL with a RN bullet but a FP with an abrupt ogive might only fit at a much shorter OAL. Some pistols have more generous chambers. My Glock would eat anything, my CZ has a short throat (CZ's do).

Chamber fit is only one part of the equation - feeding from the magazine is the other. Some pistols, with some bullet shapes will be more reliable within a certain small range of OAL. This is very important. You might find your pistol with certain bullets might feed anything, with another shape bullet may prefer them longer or shorter on the OAL spectrum.
Click to expand...
 
Avenida said:
When I drop the bullet in the barrel, what am I looking for? the end of the cartridge should be flush with the beginning of the barrel and bullet should not be touching the lands, correct?

The gun in question is a MP9.
Click to expand...

The cartirdge will stop abruptly on the case mouth and the case head will not protrude further than it should. Use a factory round as a baseline. It is quite safe to use live ammo for this test with just the barrel BUT I recommned dummies as having no live ammo around while you do this stuff prevents any potential accidents later on.

If you are in doubt just run the DUMMY cartridges through your assembled pistol. This will also tell you if they feed nicely from the magazine at your chosen OAL. In my wifes M&P I have not had any issues so far with different OAL's or bullet shapes ITO feeding from the mag and eveything I have loaded up to 1.169" with RN bullets has chambered just fine. It has not been fussy at all. It just needs little more pressure to cycle than the my CZ does (I.e. as I described above the CZ will run slightly lighter loads more reliably than the M&P will).

In my opinion you should have no issues with 4.7-5gr WSF and the 124gr plated's. Start with the manual recommened OAL and for peace of mind load a few at 4.3gr to test, then load some more at 4.7 to test.
 
Thank for the tips and knowledgable experience!
I will try this and I'll let you know how it went.

Did you notice any change in accuracy while trying different COLs?
 
Avenida said:
Did you notice any change in accuracy while trying different COLs?
Click to expand...

Nothing I could call significant. My current OAL at 1.125" seems very good in out 9mm's. I am not capable of pistol accuracy that can reveal slight differences, the accuracy changes have to be quite large for me to notice!
 
I am setting the dies now, I noticed in my press, station 1 is for resizing and old primer removal.
This station does not require adjustment, this means, the die is screwed all the way down.
I noticed that the brass I got (once fired brass) is not sizing all the way down, there is a slight difference around the middle of the case (it a 2-3mm millimetres slimmer) and from the middle to the bottom is expands out again.

It is not completely flat and straight after sizing.

Is this normal or is the brass I got? Ny newbie questions are worse than a nightmare, my apologies is this is (another) stupid question...sorry
 
nevermind my last message, a little bit more reading and I discover the 9mm cases have a small taper and are known for the coke/hourglass effect.
Cheers!

happy loading!
 
I just loaded 200 hundred with these formula, after trying several today.
As you said, 4.3 grs was not realiable at all, with lots of stove pipes and sometime not even ejecting. Thanks again for the info! very helpful. Also, I have tried all different COLs, being 1.125 the most reliable.
Thank you!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom