Acceptable Bullet runout for Match Loads?

[CyaN1de]

I was doing some loading tonite for my 6BR for this weekends BC F-Class Championship and I was running my rounds through my RCBS Casemaster to check Bullet Runout.

I was getting anywhere from .000 to .002

The ones that came out from .0015 to .002 I marked at the highest point in the rotation and will try and load those ones all facing the mark the same way using them for the short range relays (300M).

The ones from .001 to .0015 are going to be my 400M loads, .0005 to .001 are 500M loads and anything under .0005 I will use for 600M.

Am I being to anal?

Where do YOU draw the line on runout before you just yank the bullet or use it for practice round?

 

[fozzy]

Just curious, did you try and put them in the seating die again and re measure? I don't have a runout gauge .. yet. I can only roll them on a piece of glass or the bench and observe the tip and look for visible runout, not nearly as scientific.

 

[CyaN1de]

Just curious, did you try and put them in the seating die again and re measure? I don't have a runout gauge .. yet. I can only roll them on a piece of glass or the bench and observe the tip and look for visible runout, not nearly as scientific.

When I seat my bullets I do it in three stages.
1. Start Bullet Seating
2. Back it out and give it a 1/3 of a turn and seat more
3. Back it out and give it a 1/3 of a turn and seat fully

I don't think running them up into the die a fourth time would help out much....but I may be wrong.

I forgot to mention I am using Redding Comp Dies and an RCBS Jr. Press with a lee shell holder.

 

[Boomer]

When I seat my bullets I do it in three stages.
1. Start Bullet Seating
2. Back it out and give it a 1/3 of a turn and seat more
3. Back it out and give it a 1/3 of a turn and seat fully

I don't think running them up into the die a fourth time would help out much....but I may be wrong.

I forgot to mention I am using Redding Comp Dies and an RCBS Jr. Press with a lee shell holder.

I follow the same procedure for all but loads with very short bullets, and I consider it to be a good practice.

I think you will find that the folks who win matches don't always have the most accurate rifle or ammo on the line. While I'm not suggesting that bullet runout is unimportant, it is only one element in a long list of elements, and excessive time spent at the bench can become detrimental to the results at the target. But anything that makes the rounds more consistent, or even anything that makes you feel better about them is generally a good thing.

I'd load up a batch of ammo to the best of my ability, taking into account bullet uniformity, case uniformity, and neck runout then if time permits, choose my competition rounds from the loaded rounds based on things like final bullet runout.

Edited to add . . .
If there is very little shank to neck contact due to the bullet design or the need to seat the bullet long or if the bullet has a very short bearing surface which makes it prone to entering the bore ####-eyed, the more critical it is to check the bullet runout.

 

[CyaN1de]

I probably shouldn't have even started checking them all. They shot well for me this past weekend and I only ran a select few through the gauge. The ones that I did check were under .001 so I didn't bother checking all of them.

I figure now that I have though, I may as well go for consistency.

 

[prosper]

I dunno. Typically my reloading techniques yield ammo with an average runout of a little under .002. Beyond that, I expect I'd have to start turning necks

 

[Blackcloud]

When I seat my bullets I do it in three stages.
1. Start Bullet Seating
2. Back it out and give it a 1/3 of a turn and seat more
3. Back it out and give it a 1/3 of a turn and seat fully

I don't think running them up into the die a fourth time would help out much....but I may be wrong.

I forgot to mention I am using Redding Comp Dies and an RCBS Jr. Press with a lee shell holder.

This is what I do as well. For the tactical matches, if its under .003 I'll run it. Most of my reloads (90%) are less than .002 but I get the occassional one just over. Likely cause I don't sort my Lapua Brass all that well. Just cull the real bad ones.

I also have an Arbor press and Wilson inline hand dies (they are said to be the best you can get). The set up is slower to reload with, is very well made, and really doesn't do any better job than my Redding Competition dies in an RCBS Rock Chucker Press so this is what I stick with.

I also matters where you measure your runout from. The closer to the tip of the bullet you measure, the more pronounced your runout will be.

Ever measured the runout on FGGM or Blackhills, if you haven't you'll be shocked.

I guess the question I ask is on any given day, under stress and time constraints, am I going to be .000 or .001 runout good while taking the shot?

 

[SteveB]

Richard: From what I have read anything up to .003" runnout is not noticeable out to 600 meters. I use .002 and under for serious matches and .002 to .003" for our local Wednesday night matches. Anything over .003" is pulled and the case necks etc. redone. If that case runout doesn't improve, it is scrapped. Steve

BTW, congrats over the win and good luck this coming weekend. I have family issues to deal with so won't be there again. Damn!!

 

[CyaN1de]

Richard: From what I have read anything up to .003" runnout is not noticeable out to 600 meters. I use .002 and under for serious matches and .002 to .003" for our local Wednesday night matches. Anything over .003" is pulled and the case necks etc. redone. If that case runout doesn't improve, it is scrapped. Steve

BTW, congrats over the win and good luck this coming weekend. I have family issues to deal with so won't be there again. Damn!!

Thanks Steve,

Too bad you aren't making the match.....there is always Kananaskis in Sept

 

[fatboyz]

I kind of brought this old thread to life again. I have noticed that run out is higher with new virgin brass, and improves after it's been fired and then neck sized. Anybody else make this observation.

 

[b72471]

Run out

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but for my loading if it's within .005 it's ok anything beyond that is used for sighting in. The real squeeker is the nut behind the rifle.
Take care & enjoy. Bill

 

[dozernomore]

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but for my loading if it's within .005 it's ok anything beyond that is used for sighting in. The real squeeker is the nut behind the rifle.
Take care & enjoy. Bill

I don't do any match shooting,just predator and varmint,but I pretty much agree with b72471,,I like to see them .004 or less

 

[Budweiser360]

How did you come to use that seating process, Cyanide? Just wondering if it actually makes a difference seating it a 1/3rd at a time/turn etc.. or if one run up can achieve the same results?

Whether it does or doesn't, if it helps mentally, then it helps. I'm just interested to see if you have "proven" it, or if a 4th run would improve it again.. Since I don't think I'm a world class shooter, I like the science behind it all lol

 

[warrenb]

This must be a thread from when Richard was just a young boy starting life as a competition shooter?
Not the renowned international competitor we know him as today.

Richard are you doing anything different today?. Anything you would like to share?

 

[SteveB]

Fatboyz:

I have found exactly the same thing in almost every caliber I use in my match rifles. I load new brass and sort it to under .003" for match shooting then take the rejects and shoot them in our local winter or summer league shooting. In most cases when I neck size the once fired brass the run-out diminishes a lot.

Steve

 

[CyaN1de]

This must be a thread from when Richard was just a young boy starting life as a competition shooter?
Not the renowned international competitor we know him as today.

Richard are you doing anything different today?. Anything you would like to share?

LOL

Yeah, I quit using the "3 Point" seating system as I found it didn't make a damn lick of difference whether it was seated in 3 phases or if I just pushed it into the case in one go

Using quality match grade inline seating dies helps such as Redding Competition (Sleeved), Wilson (Inline with Arbor press), Forster Benchrest (Sleeved).


And HOLY Necro post.........2008....gotta be some kind of record set here.

Heres a card for you