Acceptable hunting rifle accuracy... (excluding varminting)

What accuracy is necessary for hunting:

  • sub-MOA

    Votes: 20 12.8%

  • 1-2 MOA

    Votes: 87 55.8%

  • 2-4 MOA

    Votes: 36 23.1%

  • minute of pie-plate

    Votes: 13 8.3%
  • Total voters
    156
At what point did it become fashionable to be sub MOA? The critters don't care if you shot 1" left and high. Most dudes I know don't put enough time in at the range to shoot sub 1" anyway, but people being people " I got me a new 300 wSSM super light blah blah blah" Just cause you can shoot to 400yrds doesn't mean you should. A firearm that can shoot sub MOA won't if you don't train with it. I get angry hearing about hail mary shots and sub MOA super mags. It's hunting not competition target shooting. Know your rifle, know your critter, one shot, go get it.
 
that brings up a related point:

first thing most people do when they get a new gun is clean it, take it to the range and shoot some groups.

now assuming you can shoot a 100 yard group - that the problem isnt you - everyone knows that theres some variance in out of the box accuracy from rifle to rifle. there is some luck involved in what you get out of the box: you could buy a new gun that shoots .75" groups with the first box of ammo you try, or you could end up with one that you simply cant get under 2.5" groups no matter what load you try.

- what do you think the odds are of that sub-MOA 'shooter' ending up on the EE?
- what do you think the odds are of a 2-3 MOA lemon ending up on the EE?

food for thought :)
 
I agree with BBB and BUM. I need to know that it is (not) me, otherwise why practice? If you can do no better than a 6" group, and that's all you need, stop right there and go hunting.

Know your rifle, know your critter, one shot, go get it.
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Hannibal, I totally agree. If you have never done better than a 6" group (+ or -3 MOA) from a bench, then by all means avoid shooting anything beyond 50 yards.

Life's too short for crappy guns.
 
It all depends on what you are hunting. A minute of gopher, deer or moose is always acceptable. Of course, a minute of gopher with a 338 Win is always acceptable . . .
 
I like 1 MOA rifles for my own piece of mind. What is most important to me is that I can put the bullet through the vitals of my quarry, ensuring a quick clean kill. If I do my part, I want to know that the rifle will fling the bullet in that same area.
 
It all depends on what and where im hunting. In brush cover a 2 MOA gun will do its job. If its open country then i like something that groups a little tighter for those long range shots.
 
My hunting these days is very up close and personal. 100 yards is a real rarity.
Under those conditions, pie plate accuracy will work.
However, my personal preference is 1 to 2 MOA or less. I can and do hunt with rifles that are worse, but only in the thick stuff.
 
A 4 minute of angle gun may be all you need in Ontario woods, it might not be enough on the open praries.

A subMOA gun will serve you well in both locals, needed or not.
 
I think for the Average hunter, the gun shoots better than he does. in other words, we'd do better to take shooting lessons, than exchange rifles. Just don't tell my wife.

For those of you , (not me), who do a lot of target shooting with rifle, the above probably doesn't apply.
 
I don't think in terms of M.O.A. with the old Winchesters, iron sights and cast bullet I shoot. In fact, I don't think in terms of M.O.A. with any gun when it comes to hunting. I think in terms of how large the vital area is. If the vital area is 8" in diameter, then I'm happy with an 6" group at 10 feet or a 6" group at 200 yards. Doesn't make a difference. That's why I said 6" in an earlier post. If I had one of those fancy, uber-mag rifles with one of them 50X scopes and I was hunting deer, I'd still be happy with a 6" group at 10 feet and a 6" group at 400 yards (for deer that is). I've hunted for 40 years and I never even heard of M.O.A. for the first 10 years ..... I always did, and still do, think in terms of how big the vital area is. Just about any gun will do (except for a 30-30 with a bent barrel that gave me 12" pattern at 100 yards). It doesn't matter whether I'm hunting in Ontario, Manitoba, or Alberta .... a five-shot, 6" or less group is fine for deer and that goes for whether you are shooting them at a range of 2 yards, or 800 yards. If I'm hunting rabbits, then I look for a 2" group. So if I can get a 2" group at range of 3 inches from the muzzle and that's where the rabbit is, I'm happy. If I'm shooting rabbits at 100 yards, I still want a 2" group. I've reloaded for old rifles that had bores that looked like a dadgummed moonscape and it still gave me 4" groups at 100 yards. There's got to be something horribly wrong with a rifle if it can't give you 6" groups at 100 yards. When some of you fellows get all in a sweat because you only get a 2 M.O.A. gun I can tell you that a deer couldn't give a rat's posterior about the extra M.O.A, but if you can put 5 bullets into its vitals, then that deer has an excuse for breaking a sweat. Now if we were in competitive shooting .... well that's a horse of a different color, but we're talking about hunting here.
 
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I've got no problem with a 6" group - as long as it is I, and not the rifle, that is responsible for it.
 
looch said:
I've got no problem with a 6" group - as long as it is I, and not the rifle, that is responsible for it.
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Well said. I bet 99% of the rifles can give a better group than the fellow can shoot. That is why, as long as we're not talking about competitive shooting but just hunting, I could care less about M.O.A. In fact, the only time it crosses my mind is when I hear somebody bring it up.

Now having said that, when I'm developing a load, I want a load that will let the rifle achieve its capabilities. Once that's done, then the rest is up to me.
 
The farther away you shoot, is where better accuracy is a plus. I hunted up to 400-500 yrds for 15 years without knowing what kind of groups I did and always got my meat. But now I'm a Sub-MOA fanatic and love it. I never know what distance I'm going to shoot so it kind of feels good knowing my shots are better. Plus it's fun
 
I think we focus too much on what a rifle and load combination can do from the bench. With handloads (and a lot of factory ammo), bedding, and a good trigger many rifles can print groups in and around MOA, which is where I like to see my guns. However, that quickly changes if I stand on my own two feet! Once we have an accurate load I think practice in field positions is more important than trying to wring out a half-inch-tighter group at 100 yards.
 
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Beaver Skin said:
Once we have an accurate load I think practice in field positions is more important than trying to wring out a half-inch-tighter group at 100 yards.
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I agree. Since I only have iron sights on my old guns, and the trajectory of my bullets is quite an arch, I practice out to only 200 yards, with a five-shot, 6" group at 200 yards as my standard.
 
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