Accuracy Expectaion - Standing with 22lr with steel sights
- Thread starter jack1955
- Start date
All depends... How are your eyes? What are you shooting? What type of ammo? what type of iron sights? peep, Lyman, etc.? what rifle? what ammo? what is your shooting stance? I could clover leaf at 25 with my son's biathlon rifle equipped with a Lyman aperture and front globe, using a biathlon target shoot stance and the rifle freely resting on the palm of a shooting glove. My son, a quarter of a century younger, could do the same at 50 meters.
Yes, it all depends, a qualifier if there ever was one. Since the question sounds generic or general, I'll guess the OP is referring to regular style open iron sights rather than aperture or peep sights.
At 25 yards it wouldn't depend much on rifle or ammo as that is close enough to reduce inaccuracy caused by either to a relatively small degree. That is to say, regardless of ammo or make of rifle in themselves, most ammos and most rifles should be reasonably accurate at 25 yards.
What will affect accuracy more will more likely be on what Garaldtao refers to as the "shooting stance". If the rifle is held with the left arm extended and unsupported -- the "off-hand position" -- accuracy will be much more affected than if the rifle is held with the standing position stance used by three position target shooters, with the with the left elbow supported on the hip.
Compare the two standing positions below.
Group sizes will vary according to experience and practice and eyesight as well as the standing position used. At 25 yards with regular open or iron sights groups of one inch groups are not unreasonable. It's worth noting that whatever is achieved at 25 yards, it can easily be tripled at 50.
At the same time, with open sights at 50 yards the grouping size is a little more difficult to anticipate. Here particular ammo and particular rifle play a greater role. While some makes and models of rifles are made to shoot better than others, inexpensive bulk ammo is much less accurate than match ammo, and it will show in group sizes no matter what position or sights are used. But the greatest role remains the limitations of the sights sights as well as the "shooting stance". Groups shot off-hand groups will invariably be large although practice and experience can shrink them. Groups shot in the 3P standing position will be more consistent, but they are limited by the nature of the sights.
To see what the best groups the rifle and ammo being used can achieve at 25 or 50 yards, try shooting from a steady bench or table with a sand bag or something similar. That can help provide a benchmark from which to further evaluate results.
At 25 yards it wouldn't depend much on rifle or ammo as that is close enough to reduce inaccuracy caused by either to a relatively small degree. That is to say, regardless of ammo or make of rifle in themselves, most ammos and most rifles should be reasonably accurate at 25 yards.
What will affect accuracy more will more likely be on what Garaldtao refers to as the "shooting stance". If the rifle is held with the left arm extended and unsupported -- the "off-hand position" -- accuracy will be much more affected than if the rifle is held with the standing position stance used by three position target shooters, with the with the left elbow supported on the hip.
Compare the two standing positions below.
Group sizes will vary according to experience and practice and eyesight as well as the standing position used. At 25 yards with regular open or iron sights groups of one inch groups are not unreasonable. It's worth noting that whatever is achieved at 25 yards, it can easily be tripled at 50.
At the same time, with open sights at 50 yards the grouping size is a little more difficult to anticipate. Here particular ammo and particular rifle play a greater role. While some makes and models of rifles are made to shoot better than others, inexpensive bulk ammo is much less accurate than match ammo, and it will show in group sizes no matter what position or sights are used. But the greatest role remains the limitations of the sights sights as well as the "shooting stance". Groups shot off-hand groups will invariably be large although practice and experience can shrink them. Groups shot in the 3P standing position will be more consistent, but they are limited by the nature of the sights.
To see what the best groups the rifle and ammo being used can achieve at 25 or 50 yards, try shooting from a steady bench or table with a sand bag or something similar. That can help provide a benchmark from which to further evaluate results.
First off I'd start with bench rested shooting. Try a few different types of ammo. And the ammo should be stuff that comes in the 50 round boxes with "trays" so the ammo tends to be more consistent. I'd also try a mix of HV and SV options.
Odds are good that you'll find that that one or two do better groups than the others. And with any luck your groups off a bench rest situation will be about the size of a quarter or smaller.
Take note too that shooting for precision results of a bench rest situation is not as easy as it sounds. I found this out the hard way myself. Shooting well from a bench rested situation is very much a shooting skill as much as any other. But with some moderate care you will find that a couple of types of ammo will be better for accuracy than the rest.
Now that you have a bench rested group size to go by try shooting that ammo from standing. The difference in group size will be due to you and your posture. Try some different positions and styles. I'd also suggest you get onto You Tube and search for "rimfire silhouette shooting" and study the postures used to support the rifles in the standing positions. How you stand, angle your body and support the rifle make a BIG difference.
I have my good and bad days. But when I shoot at 25'ish yards from free standing it tends to be with regular iron sights or target style peep sights. My results vary depending on a bunch of things but in general I enjoy shooting at a Birchwood Casey flip up and reset rimfire target. The paddles on that are 2.5" in diameter. And generally I can hit these at 25 yards 2 out of 3 times. And on my better days 3 out of 4. That's with my Henry lever rifle. With my single shot BSA Martini it's more like 5 out of 6 times.... that's a NICE rifle....
Now I've got "oldguyeys" and I'm getting up there in years. That may play a part in this as I do notice my accuracy slipping a little year by year ever since I started collecting OAS. But I seem to have a lot of folks that watch and shoot as well tell me that I'm pretty decent. But I do notice that they mostly only shoot from bench rested positions.
Odds are good that you'll find that that one or two do better groups than the others. And with any luck your groups off a bench rest situation will be about the size of a quarter or smaller.
Take note too that shooting for precision results of a bench rest situation is not as easy as it sounds. I found this out the hard way myself. Shooting well from a bench rested situation is very much a shooting skill as much as any other. But with some moderate care you will find that a couple of types of ammo will be better for accuracy than the rest.
Now that you have a bench rested group size to go by try shooting that ammo from standing. The difference in group size will be due to you and your posture. Try some different positions and styles. I'd also suggest you get onto You Tube and search for "rimfire silhouette shooting" and study the postures used to support the rifles in the standing positions. How you stand, angle your body and support the rifle make a BIG difference.
I have my good and bad days. But when I shoot at 25'ish yards from free standing it tends to be with regular iron sights or target style peep sights. My results vary depending on a bunch of things but in general I enjoy shooting at a Birchwood Casey flip up and reset rimfire target. The paddles on that are 2.5" in diameter. And generally I can hit these at 25 yards 2 out of 3 times. And on my better days 3 out of 4. That's with my Henry lever rifle. With my single shot BSA Martini it's more like 5 out of 6 times.... that's a NICE rifle....
Now I've got "oldguyeys" and I'm getting up there in years. That may play a part in this as I do notice my accuracy slipping a little year by year ever since I started collecting OAS. But I seem to have a lot of folks that watch and shoot as well tell me that I'm pretty decent. But I do notice that they mostly only shoot from bench rested positions.To answer your question, the only unrealistic group would be 1 hole groups. Realistic is anything, depends on eyesight, health, coordination and practice.
Shooting your rifle from a bench will let you know what you can do steady. Strive to get as close to that as possible standing.
Offhand shooting is more Indian than arrow. Great guns and ammo will help very little in the beginning. I use bulk ammo for offhand (one that shoots pretty well in my rifle). Any trigger pull issue Wii throw your groups more than the worst bulk ammo at that range.
Dry fire on targets and watch sights (use something to protect rimfire firing pin) and shoot a lot if you want to improve.
Shooting your rifle from a bench will let you know what you can do steady. Strive to get as close to that as possible standing.
Offhand shooting is more Indian than arrow. Great guns and ammo will help very little in the beginning. I use bulk ammo for offhand (one that shoots pretty well in my rifle). Any trigger pull issue Wii throw your groups more than the worst bulk ammo at that range.
Dry fire on targets and watch sights (use something to protect rimfire firing pin) and shoot a lot if you want to improve.
Agree with the above - depends on your eyesight with iron's, stance, experience, practice...etc.
I'd also throw rifle fit onto the list as well. I understand why the stance commonly used by 10m air / 3p / silhouette rifle shooters work so well, but I have had little luck adapting to it using a hunting/sporting rifle; some work much better than others though for that stance.
There's an off-hand monthly "match" on rimfirecentral on one of the sub-boards; scopes or iron sights at 25 or 50 yards using the A-23 target. I suggest shooting a round of either a local or casual E-match and comparing scores a bit might get you a better visual idea of what is "reasonably" doable with a sporting rifle.
I'd also throw rifle fit onto the list as well. I understand why the stance commonly used by 10m air / 3p / silhouette rifle shooters work so well, but I have had little luck adapting to it using a hunting/sporting rifle; some work much better than others though for that stance.
There's an off-hand monthly "match" on rimfirecentral on one of the sub-boards; scopes or iron sights at 25 or 50 yards using the A-23 target. I suggest shooting a round of either a local or casual E-match and comparing scores a bit might get you a better visual idea of what is "reasonably" doable with a sporting rifle.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
In addition to age related issues like eyes and the “shakes”, I would add that decent muscle tone, specially abdominal and upper body strength will give you a better chance at good groups. But there is no greater fun shooting than free standing. Not dissing bench shooters (I’m one), but free standing separates the skilled from the wannabes.
Last edited:
