Accuracy International AW load testing results.

J996

J996

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Hey gang,

I am a long time service rifle shooter (one of those weirdos that uses a sling) and this is my first precision rifle with a scope and bipod.
I bought the rifle new and as of this writing it has 300 rounds down the pipe. After testing out a few different bullets I have decided to stay with the 175 SMK for my loads. I have put everything from 155's to 178's through this rifle and it will shoot everything into the neighbourhood of 1/2 inch. Even 7.62 Nato M80 went into 3/4" consistently. I freaking love this thing!!

I went out today with 5 different charge weights to try the 175 SMK's seated 25 thou off the lands with IMR 4895 powder in lapua brass and CCI #34 primers.
I loaded 40, 40.5, 41, 41.5 and 42 grains. No pressure signs at 42 which should be well over 2600 fps in that barrel.

I am still getting used to this type of shooting and frequently send one round out of the group but I am getting better each range session.
The gem of the day was my last 5 test rounds at 41.5 grains which came in at .268" !!! I really hunkered down and gave it my best on that one and I did not screw it up for once!! I have never shot a group that small in my life!!

So 41.5 looks like the ticket giving me two good groups: 5 rounds into .268" and 4 rounds into .227" (I screwed that one up with a flyer).

The results were as follows:
(all are 5 shot groups)

.268" 41.5 gr
.333" 41 gr
.428" 40 gr
.504" 41.5 gr (flyer) .277 without the flyer.
.709" 40.5 gr (horrible flyer)
.781" 42 grains (flyer)

It definitely opened up a bit at 42 grains which is getting a little warm anyways.

Next I need to scrounge up a chrony and see what kinds of velocities I am getting and then on to the dope and off to the races. I also ditched the rear bag setup when using this rifle and find it is steadiest with a block of wood under the ground spike so I can make fine adjustment from there.

Hope you enjoy the pics.

















 
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Perfect gun.
Could I ask how much these thing go for (an approximation is enough ) ?

Mush
 
Thanks for the kind words guys, they truly are amazing rifles.

The one thing that makes the biggest impression while shooting it is the bolt throw. It is so slick and effortless that you start wondering if it even chambered a round (which of course it does every time). When I first got it I was doing press checks constantly, now I'm used to how smoothly it glides into battery.

Mush,

A non-folder base model .308 runs 6000 and it goes up from there depending on options. My folder was the one and only AW rifle that Wolverine had in stock at the time so I grabbed it up. It came with every bell and whistle including the PH bipod and it cost 8000.

AI still makes AW's in .308 and .300 win mag. Delivery time is around 6 -8 months at this time.
 
Sorry, I have to say it. It is a very nice rifle, but for the money you paid, you could have had two full-on custom guns (in AICS stocks) that would print one hole groups all day long. I don't understand the appeal of uber expensive field guns.

To each his own.
 
paperslayer said:
Sorry, I have to say it. It is a very nice rifle, but for the money you paid, you could have had two full-on custom guns (in AICS stocks) that would print one hole groups all day long. I don't understand the appeal of uber expensive field guns.

To each his own.
Click to expand...

This is my opinion why someone would want a AI over two customs, this is coming from someone that has a few customs (two in AICS stocks) and doesn't have a AI. Some advantages of the AI are:

-Extremely reliable double stack mags that are easy to load and shorter than AICS mags. They also can be topped up while in the rifle.
-Very slick and smooth 60 degree bolt throw, very positive loading, extracting and ejecting.
-Better trigger with more adjustment. (positional adjustment)
-Bonded chassis
-Order a barrel and change it by yourself in 10 min.
-Overall ruggedness and reliability of the whole system in general.

Just my opinion.
 
paperslayer said:
Sorry, I have to say it. It is a very nice rifle, but for the money you paid, you could have had two full-on custom guns (in AICS stocks) that would print one hole groups all day long. I don't understand the appeal of uber expensive field guns.

To each his own.
Click to expand...

Jay is on the right track with some of the features these rifles offer over conventional rifles.

Since this was my once in a lifetime buy and I had a boatload of money at the time, I did not have to compromise on anything and I had the luxury of being able to buy exactly what I wanted.
Price did not factor into this purchase!

I am fully aware that a Remmy 700 or a Savage can easily shoot 1/2 moa or better, however accuracy was not my sole requirement for what I was looking for in a rifle. I wanted bomb-proof construction and unmatched durability and reliability along with modern features. That's what these rifles are made for and I want it to last for life. Add to that that I have always wanted an AI and it was a no brainer for me to pull the trigger on one.

I wanted a modern closed top, flat bottom action as that type of design just makes sense to me. From an engineering standpoint the AI's are amazing.
Inside that massive receiver is a removable steel cylinder that contains the locking lug recesses. There are old AW's out there that have 80k rounds through them because armorers can simply change out the cylinder, install an new bolt head on the bolt body and she's refurbished.

The 60 degree bolt throw and double stack mags are simply awesome features. The rifles also features a claw extractor and a three position bolt mounted safety. The machining on these rifles has to be seen to be believed, absolutely outstanding.

The barrel threads into the receiver a full 1.5" and the owner can change barrels and calibers at home in 10 min with the barrel changing kit. Presently for the .308 model that is 260 rem and 6.5X47 Lapua. You could disassemble five AI rifles, mix up all the parts, re-assemble the rifles and they would be in spec. That is world class machining to say the least.

Since the action is bonded for life with 4 bolts and epoxy, water cannot get in between the receiver and the chassis. I spend alot of my shooting time in the mountains. During fall and winter, when it gets soaked you just pull off the stocksides, dry the rifle out and you're done.

Another neat feature of this particular rifle is it has the quick adjust butt. When I am out shooting with friends or the woman, the stock adjusts to their length of pull and preferred cheek rest height with the push of a button. If I want to shoot an irons only match, this rifle has the ability to mount AI aperture sights.

Overall I'll say I did my homework on this purchase. I looked at alot of rifles and for what I wanted my three finalists were the TRG, AW and PGW. By sheer coincidence the AW practically fell in my lap so I bought it. I'm sure I would have been just as happy with either of the other two rifles. If I ever want a rifle in a magnum caliber down the road, I will again be looking at rifles from these three companies. In my mind buying something tried and true that is used by militaries around the globe equals no problems, no bs, no disappointment.
 
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I'd rather have one AW than 100 Remingtons or Savages in any stock. And the main reason why... the AW is a better rifle. More accuarate... plus all the other attributes.

The honest truth, and I am with you all the way bro, is.... J996 is not an experienced precision rifle shooter and hasn't even gotten close to achieving the accuracy potential of his rifle. The issue with these groups is not that they are bad... they are pretty good... nor is it that he is not reloading correctly or to optimal performance. The issue is that he is moving the reticle in the process shooting the rifle. That is obvious from looking at these groups. That is the hardest hurdle to get over in any form of shooting. Keeping the point of aim still through the process of breaking the shot. J996's rifle is allowing him to make progress though. That is the key.

I feel comfortable in saying this, because I do the same thing.

I've been shooting an AW for a little over a year now, and it is the only rifle that I have ever shot that has allowed me to continuously close-in on the accuracy potential of the .308 cartridge.

The AW is the only rifle I've ever shot where I am convinced, shot-after-shot, that any problem I'm having is technique/movement, not rifle or ammo. And that is really saying something.

After about 13 months of owing it, and maybe 10 months of shooting it, I am at the point now where I can set up and shoot 1/2 MOA, or very close to it, right off the bat... with factory ammo. I've recently learned that I can do this with $1 a round ammo (Hornady Steel match)... if I really concentrate on technique... keeping the reticle completely still in the same place.

That is the value of the AW system in my view. Rather than worry about the temperature, humidity, is my stock tightened up against the action, is the scope aligned with the action, is the scope mount tight, am I using ultra precision handloads I fussed over for hours.... the factory took care of all that for me... I just put the rounds in and shoot. If the technique is there, the results will be there... and you don't get that out of a $1,000 rifle that somebody has turd polished.

I shot all these groups yesterday. Strangely, I didn't adjust the scope at all to shot all these groups with different weights of ammo. For next week I'll adjust one click up and one left for 100m, although I plan to focus on 200m for next week.

$1 a round ammo. Four shots into 7/16". One bad one widens it up to 5/8" at 100m. It isn't the rifle. It isn't even the ammo. (Camera auto-focused on the top of the box)
AIT29_zpsb8f9ec76.jpg


AIT31_zps4e425735.jpg


AIT32_zps8edc0d35.jpg


This would have been 5 shots into 3/8" at 100m, but I blew the last one. Something that has happened to me many times. Developing the patience to finish off groups with proper technique is obviously a huge part of this type of shooting - which I haven't quite developed yet.
AIT30_zps64e6a516.jpg


Rifle used to shoot these groups:
AWproject16_zpse42679bd.jpg


My point in all this... most of the guys - here, at the range and everywhere - never get beyond average technique, average results, and lying to their buddies and on internet. As a friend of mine says, "Your rifle shoots 1/2MOA groups? O.k. give me three 1/2" groups at 100." The answer is always... "da, duh, duh, duh..." and then the excuses come.

I admire J996 because he is obviously honest, and he is learning how to shoot a very good rifle. It doesn't happen in a year or two. It takes time to learn how to shoot a rifle. Learning how to shoot with an AW is not a bad place to start, because at least you can't blame the gear. I'm trying to do the same thing. I'm not there yet either.
 
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Ghostie thanks for joining us and I am always impressed seeing what you can produce using factory ammo! Well done man!!

It definitely looks like I found a node at 41.5 grains with my rifle and can't wait to load up 20 or 30 of those and hit the range for further testing.

I had a closer look at those two groups shot with 41.5 grains and discounting the shot I pulled on the first group, the other four rounds measure .227 I also pulled the 2nd trget from the cardboard backing and after re-measuring it comes in slightly smaller than initially thought at .268! I have updated this in the first post.

Depending how my next round of testing goes I may have a load here that gives me groups in the .2's provided I can get my technique down.
As Ghostie pointed out, at this time the weak link in the system is me. These rifles are hammer's and have been proven the world over. Darrel Evans from the UK set three benchrest records using an AW in 6.5X47 Lapua in 2012.

h ttp://www.accuracyinternational.com/news/?p=165





 
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armorman said:
Nice shooting, and those are top notch rifles! Sorry if I missed it but what velocity are you getting at 41.5 grs?
Click to expand...

No idea yet, need to get my hands on a chrony. I would think just over 2600 fps since the lapua cases have as similar capacity to my LC military cases.
 
ghostie said:
I'd rather have one AW than 100 Remingtons or Savages in any stock. And the main reason why... the AW is a better rifle. More accuarate... plus all the other attributes.

The honest truth, and I am with you all the way bro, is.... J996 is not an experienced precision rifle shooter and hasn't even gotten close to achieving the accuracy potential of his rifle. The issue with these groups is not that they are bad... they are pretty good... nor is it that he is not reloading correctly or to optimal performance. The issue is that he is moving the reticle in the process shooting the rifle. That is obvious from looking at these groups. That is the hardest hurdle to get over in any form of shooting. Keeping the point of aim still through the process of breaking the shot. J996's rifle is allowing him to make progress though. That is the key.

I feel comfortable in saying this, because I do the same thing.

I've been shooting an AW for a little over a year now, and it is the only rifle that I have ever shot that has allowed me to continuously close-in on the accuracy potential of the .308 cartridge.

The AW is the only rifle I've ever shot where I am convinced, shot-after-shot, that any problem I'm having is technique/movement, not rifle or ammo. And that is really saying something.

After about 13 months of owing it, and maybe 10 months of shooting it, I am at the point now where I can set up and shoot 1/2 MOA, or very close to it, right off the bat... with factory ammo. I've recently learned that I can do this with $1 a round ammo (Hornady Steel match)... if I really concentrate on technique... keeping the reticle completely still in the same place.

That is the value of the AW system in my view. Rather than worry about the temperature, humidity, is my stock tightened up against the action, is the scope aligned with the action, is the scope mount tight, am I using ultra precision handloads I fussed over for hours.... the factory took care of all that for me... I just put the rounds in and shoot. If the technique is there, the results will be there... and you don't get that out of a $1,000 rifle that somebody has turd polished.

I shot all these groups yesterday. Strangely, I didn't adjust the scope at all to shot all these groups with different weights of ammo. For next week I'll adjust one click up and one left for 100m, although I plan to focus on 200m for next week.

$1 a round ammo. Four shots into 7/16". One bad one widens it up to 5/8" at 100m. It isn't the rifle. It isn't even the ammo. (Camera auto-focused on the top of the box)
AIT29_zpsb8f9ec76.jpg


AIT31_zps4e425735.jpg


AIT32_zps8edc0d35.jpg


This would have been 5 shots into 3/8" at 100m, but I blew the last one. Something that has happened to me many times. Developing the patience to finish off groups with proper technique is obviously a huge part of this type of shooting - which I haven't quite developed yet.
AIT30_zps64e6a516.jpg


Rifle used to shoot these groups:
AWproject16_zpse42679bd.jpg


My point in all this... most of the guys - here, at the range and everywhere - never get beyond average technique, average results, and lying to their buddies and on internet. As a friend of mine says, "Your rifle shoots 1/2MOA groups? O.k. give me three 1/2" groups at 100." The answer is always... "da, duh, duh, duh..." and then the excuses come.

I admire J996 because he is obviously honest, and he is learning how to shoot a very good rifle. It doesn't happen in a year or two. It takes time to learn how to shoot a rifle. Learning how to shoot with an AW is not a bad place to start, because at least you can't blame the gear. I'm trying to do the same thing. I'm not there yet either.
Click to expand...

If I might chime in, an accuracy international is an extremely expensive rifle. Do I know it's good? I think it's one of the best. In fact eventually I would own one, probably 2 maybe even 3 (308,338,50), I want to get a AICS for my savage model 10 in 223. Simple reasoning. 223 is a cheaper round to train fundamentals, and if I get a aics when I do get an accuracy international I can already be used to the base manual of arms and the feel of the rifle. With a noticable improvement in performance to boot. But jumping into an AI is not always the best idea. Maybe it works for you. It doesnt work for everyone. To me starting off with 10k rifle limits how much I can train, 1: I am now limited in funds because I dropped an immense amount of money on rifle and the quality glass that should go along with it, along with the rings and bipod. Plus match ammo especially in 308 or 338 aint cheap. Which would reduce the amount of rounds I can afford to chuck out for practice.

Plus I'm fairly new to any shooting discipline. The ai might very well be a 1/4 moa gun, but I will be honest I am probably a 1.5moa shooter on my best day right now. So my 1 moa savage will outshoot me just as much as your 1/4 moa ai. Now after a few hundred or a few thousand rounds down when I can shoot straight, ya like I said I will get one. But getting one off the start? I'm not convinced that's the right way to go.
 
I definitely wouldn't suggest an AI, of any model, for anyone who wants a cost effective rifle to learn on. The rifles are not cost effective. Period. Full stop. They are not for people on budgets - and results on the range do not change that conculsion. As was mentioned in one of the other threads on this topic, these rifles (and all the other high-end, $5K and up) rifles will NEVER maximize the cost/utility equation - no matter what level of experience a shooter has. The lower cost rifle will always be able to get near, match or even (in some cases) exceed the more expensive rifle in terms of results (especially in a civillian/shooting range type environment) in the hands of the best riflemen. For the rest of us, we only ever learn to APPROACH the accuracy potential of these rifles - whether that is an $800 rifle or an $8,000 rifle. If cost is a factor, of course, logic requires that you buy and use the lower cost equipment.

I guess what J996 is saying, and I am saying is, we bought these rifles because we wanted Accuracy International AW rifles... not because we wanted a rifle that would meet a certain technical requirement; or because we were under the impression that AW's outshoot all other less expensive rifles, etc. They don't. But if you want an AW you have to go buy an AW. All these rifles are very similar in terms of what is achievable with them.

Is an AW a great rifle to learn to shoot on? Absolutely. It takes a lot of the variables and the trial-and-error out of it. The learning curve to getting great results is very short compared with a lot of other rifle platforms. As I posted in one of the other threads... My girlfriend can shoot the AW almost as well as I can (right around 1/2 MOA) off a bench - and she doesn't even like to shoot .308, because it hurts her shoulder! That is a fairly sobering conclusion, but from what I have seen it is true. I am fairly confident I could get your mother shooting an AW close to 1/2MOA off a bench at 100m if she was willing to put the time into it.

That is what I really like about these rifles... they take the excuses out it. If the round doesn't land right on top of the last one... it's your fault. As I am showing above, this holds true even for cheap ammo. So in terms of improving... a rifle like this strips away the excuses. So, in that sense they are great for learning.

The downside of these rifles is what is happening here, and almost every time I post on these rifles or take mine to the range: there is just this non-stop wave of hate and jealousy of people telling (usually in a typically Canadian passive-agressive way) AW owners (and owners of all expensive tactical rifles) that they can't shoot to the potential of their rifle, and therefore they would be better off with an $800 Remmy or whatever; how they could buy a half-dozen of them for the cost of that rifle, etc. I'm sick of it myself. I can't understand why people continue to believe they are bringing up an original point.
 
ghostie said:
I definitely wouldn't suggest an AI, of any model, for anyone who wants a cost effective rifle to learn on. The rifles are not cost effective. Period. Full stop. They are not for people on budgets - and results on the range do not change that conculsion. As was mentioned in one of the other threads on this topic, these rifles (and all the other high-end, $5K and up) rifles will NEVER maximize the cost/utility equation - no matter what level of experience a shooter has. The lower cost rifle will always be able to get near, match or even (in some cases) exceed the more expensive rifle in terms of results (especially in a civillian/shooting range type environment) in the hands of the best riflemen. For the rest of us, we only ever learn to APPROACH the accuracy potential of these rifles - whether that is an $800 rifle or an $8,000 rifle. If cost is a factor, of course, logic requires that you buy and use the lower cost equipment.

I guess what J996 is saying, and I am saying is, we bought these rifles because we wanted Accuracy International AW rifles... not because we wanted a rifle that would meet a certain technical requirement; or because we were under the impression that AW's outshoot all other less expensive rifles, etc. They don't. But if you want an AW you have to go buy an AW. All these rifles are very similar in terms of what is achievable with them.

Is an AW a great rifle to learn to shoot on? Absolutely. It takes a lot of the variables and the trial-and-error out of it. The learning curve to getting great results is very short compared with a lot of other rifle platforms. As I posted in one of the other threads... My girlfriend can shoot the AW almost as well as I can (right around 1/2 MOA) off a bench - and she doesn't even like to shoot .308, because it hurts her shoulder! That is a fairly sobering conclusion, but from what I have seen it is true. I am fairly confident I could get your mother shooting an AW close to 1/2MOA off a bench at 100m if she was willing to put the time into it.

That is what I really like about these rifles... they take the excuses out it. If the round doesn't land right on top of the last one... it's your fault. As I am showing above, this holds true even for cheap ammo. So in terms of improving... a rifle like this strips away the excuses. So, in that sense they are great for learning.

The downside of these rifles is what is happening here, and almost every time I post on these rifles or take mine to the range: there is just this non-stop wave of hate and jealousy of people telling (usually in a typically Canadian passive-agressive way) AW owners (and owners of all expensive tactical rifles) that they can't shoot to the potential of their rifle, and therefore they would be better off with an $800 Remmy or whatever; how they could buy a half-dozen of them for the cost of that rifle, etc. I'm sick of it myself. I can't understand why people continue to believe they are bringing up an original point.
Click to expand...

I don't know about my mother but I will be happy to give it a shot if you are willing to teach me(willing to pay for my own ammo). :)

I meant no disrespect, just pointing out my line of reasoning.

I really like ais, I will be buying a few in the future of that I am sure. Since you own one I was wondering if the ax has any detriments over the aw? From what I saw the aw338 had a 5 round mag and the ax338 had a 10 round mag which is a plus for the ax, other than the full length rail is there anything that makes the ax inferior? I like the styling on both the rifles, even though I have heard some people call the ax a pressure washer. But because of the doubled mag cap I was looking at the ax338.

And I was under the impression AIs do outshoot just about anything, along with top shelf steyrs and dsr bullpups etc with the right shooter behind it? Not that it matters, I am laughably inexperienced and have a long road ahead of me before I can consider myself a good shot.

And I know what you mean by that hostility, I have heard the same bs from guys running norinco 1911s or girsans or other low end pistols against my HK P30L. Not sure what their point is, but generally when I ask them to take a course with me or show me their mad skills they got from the price difference they spent in ammo they usually clear out. Only one stuck around with a cz, and it let him down big time. Karma is a b*tch I guess.
 
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