Accuracy of contemporary Mausers

Joel

Joel

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Forgive me if this has been asked already, but how do different contemporary (lets say pre WW1-ish) Mausers stack up?

The Swedes have a well deserved, great reputation for accuracy, but would something like a 1908 Brazilian, or a 1909 Argentine on average shoot just as well? They've quite quality made European produced guns as well.

If not...why not?
 
jamesharrison said:
If not, I'd say it's probably due to the ammunition.
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That would make sense! We'll say if they were held to good bullets loaded by a good handloader, but with no particular tuning. Or equal quality ammo of whatever sort.

I also can't see why they wouldn't shoot equally well, but the others don't seem to be talked about as often as the Swede
 
Having shot a fair number of Swedish M96 and 38's as well as military Mausers from many manufacturers, I'd say given equal bore condition and quality ammo they all have the potential to be similarly accurate. I had one 1899 MO manufactured M96 that was really accurate but the most accurate military Mauser I've had was an Israeli converted K98k in 7.62.
 
QUOTE>>>>>That would make sense! We'll say if they were held to good bullets loaded by a good handloader, but with no particular tuning. Or equal quality ammo of whatever sort. I also can't see why they wouldn't shoot equally well, but the others don't seem to be talked about as often as the Swede<<<<<ENDQUOTE

Joel:
Sorry; thought you were referring to the various Mausers' accuracy with factory ammunition. BUT, I'd also say it is due to the quality of the surplus rifles, or, in most cases, lack thereof, that contribute to the Swede's superior accuracy. Even back in the day [late 70's - early 80's], there were very few Mauser 1908s or 1909's [those were the only models I ever saw that were in excellent to almost new condition, vice the fair to poor condition of the others, whether k98's, 1910 Costa Rican, VZ's, &c.] that were in the same condition as that of a majority of the Swedes that came in at the same time. Further, of all the surplus ammunition, be it in 7x57, 7.65x53, 7.92x57, I never saw any ammunition that was comparable in quality to the Swede's m/41 stuff that you can still find at gunshows.
 
jamesharrison said:
QUOTE>>>>>That would make sense! We'll say if they were held to good bullets loaded by a good handloader, but with no particular tuning. Or equal quality ammo of whatever sort. I also can't see why they wouldn't shoot equally well, but the others don't seem to be talked about as often as the Swede<<<<<ENDQUOTE

Joel:
Sorry; thought you were referring to the various Mausers' accuracy with factory ammunition. BUT, I'd also say it is due to the quality of the surplus rifles, or, in most cases, lack thereof, that contribute to the Swede's superior accuracy. Even back in the day [late 70's - early 80's], there were very few Mauser 1908s or 1909's [those were the only models I ever saw that were in excellent to almost new condition, vice the fair to poor condition of the others, whether k98's, 1910 Costa Rican, VZ's, &c.] that were in the same condition as that of a majority of the Swedes that came in at the same time. Further, of all the surplus ammunition, be it in 7x57, 7.65x53, 7.92x57, I never saw any ammunition that was comparable in quality to the Swede's m/41 stuff that you can still find at gunshows.
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With any ammunition really!

jbmauser said:
Having shot a fair number of Swedish M96 and 38's as well as military Mausers from many manufacturers, I'd say given equal bore condition and quality ammo they all have the potential to be similarly accurate. I had one 1899 MO manufactured M96 that was really accurate but the most accurate military Mauser I've had was an Israeli converted K98k in 7.62.
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Interesting, man! And ok! Makes sense....thats about what I thought, they just don't seem to be spoken of as much as the Swedes when it comes to great shooters?
 
The 98 is a larger stiffer action then the 96.
Back in the 60's to 80's, ISSF shooting competitions in Scandinavia were largely shot with rebarreled 96 and 98 actions.
The Swedes were pretty much stuck with the 96's and several companies worked on them to make them more accurate, like the CG63 and later CG80.
At the same time, the Dane's were using German 98 actions built by S&L who installed their own barrels. The Swedes couldn't keep up, and eventually even started using S&L barrels on the CG63 and CG80's, still wasn't enough to keep up with the Dane's 98's.
So with that in mind, they all used the same ammo for competition, the 98's just shot better with the same manufacturers barrels.
It was Sauer or Anschutz that came out with a new ISSF standard rifle in the late 80's, and those outshot everything, and everyone switched to those lol.
The best shooting Swede I have is an 1899 Made in Germany Obie 96. It's been sporterized, but still has the original barrel cut down to 26". That thing shoots really good. I've had several 96 and 38's in standard configuration but never got accuracy like the 127 year old Obie.
Still have 4 of those S&L M70's, and a spare near new take off barrel off one of them, they are pretty crazy accurate rifle, insanely smooth actions too from being shot in competitions and rebuilt many times...CRF 98 Mauser that feels like a push feed working the action lol.
 
Hitzy said:
The 98 is a larger stiffer action then the 96.
Back in the 60's to 80's, ISSF shooting competitions in Scandinavia were largely shot with rebarreled 96 and 98 actions.
The Swedes were pretty much stuck with the 96's and several companies worked on them to make them more accurate, like the CG63 and later CG80.
At the same time, the Dane's were using German 98 actions built by S&L who installed their own barrels. The Swedes couldn't keep up, and eventually even started using S&L barrels on the CG63 and CG80's, still wasn't enough to keep up with the Dane's 98's.
So with that in mind, they all used the same ammo for competition, the 98's just shot better with the same manufacturers barrels.
It was Sauer or Anschutz that came out with a new ISSF standard rifle in the late 80's, and those outshot everything, and everyone switched to those lol.
The best shooting Swede I have is an 1899 Made in Germany Obie 96. It's been sporterized, but still has the original barrel cut down to 26". That thing shoots really good. I've had several 96 and 38's in standard configuration but never got accuracy like the 127 year old Obie.
Still have 4 of those S&L M70's, and a spare near new take off barrel off one of them, they are pretty crazy accurate rifle, insanely smooth actions too from being shot in competitions and rebuilt many times...CRF 98 Mauser that feels like a push feed working the action lol.
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I know what you mean about a matched, very well used Mauser action! Whole other animal from a mismatched and/or surplussed 98.

But, thanks for the explanation/info, I see where you're coming from.
 
Some things that contributed to the Swedes reputation:

Long sight radius
Mild recoil
VG-Ex condition
Quality ammo.
 
MiG25 said:
Some things that contributed to the Swedes reputation:

Long sight radius
Mild recoil
VG-Ex condition
Quality ammo.
Click to expand...

As do many other Mausers. Hence me asking.

And I shouldn't say ONLY the Swede. The Persians made by Brno also had a very high regard. But its so rare you ever hear anyone say "Get yourself a nice example of a 1908 Brazilian" or an Argie or....
 
IMO, condition and ammo being equal, one will be limited by their shooting skill and the open sights. I find that a lot of EX condition milsurp bolt rifles shoot about the same, me and my eyes are the limiting factor
 
Hitzy said:
<Snip>
The best shooting Swede I have is an 1899 Made in Germany Obie 96. It's been sporterized, but still has the original barrel cut down to 26". That thing shoots really good. I've had several 96 and 38's in standard configuration but never got accuracy like the 127 year old Obie.
Still have 4 of those S&L M70's, and a spare near new take off barrel off one of them, they are pretty crazy accurate rifle, insanely smooth actions too from being shot in competitions and rebuilt many times...CRF 98 Mauser that feels like a push feed working the action lol.
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I would concur regarding the Obendorf Mausers, I have one built in 1900 in original condition, other than the stock had been replaced with a beech one (originals were walnut). When I got it, the first three shots (156 gr. home loads were about 6" high and less than 1" diameter. Compared to my M38, the action is a lot smoother, and the trigger on the Obendorf can only be described as "target". I have owned a bunch of 96s over the years, and they all shot impressively; the Obendorf is in a different league.

In a modern "Mauser" sporter, my Zastava, also in 6.5 x 55 shoots as well as the 1900 Obendorf. Shame these are no longer imported.
 
This was shot with a factory HVA FN98 that was originally chambered in 9.3x57.
A friend and member on here bought a reamer for 9.3x62 and did it in his garage, he's a smart man and does stuff like this, and load testing to destruction, and someone I respect a lot.
Forget what I traded him for this one, but it shoots. 9.3x62 isn't a target type cartridge, and honestly, the recoil with my loads pushing 286gr at 2500fps with no recoil pad is miserable, this thing sucks all kinds of ass to shoot off a bench lol.
But hey, sub 1/2 inch groups at 100 is pretty decent.
 

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I find quailty ammo to be more important than say rifle condition on surplus mauser's. Don't get me wrong, if I could take a mint over fair/good condition than I would, in saying that my most accurate shooting mauser I've owned was a 1941 dated war time german k98k that had some wear and tear on it. My vz 24 is also a great shooter despite the bore having some wear. I personally haven't seen much of a difference between South American and the Swedish variants. With all the above it was doable to repeat 1.5"-2" at 100 yards with my best 100 yard group coming from the k98k at 1" with rws ammo.
 
Hitzy said:
This was shot with a factory HVA FN98 that was originally chambered in 9.3x57.
A friend and member on here bought a reamer for 9.3x62 and did it in his garage, he's a smart man and does stuff like this, and load testing to destruction, and someone I respect a lot.
Forget what I traded him for this one, but it shoots. 9.3x62 isn't a target type cartridge, and honestly, the recoil with my loads pushing 286gr at 2500fps with no recoil pad is miserable, this thing sucks all kinds of ass to shoot off a bench lol.
But hey, sub 1/2 inch groups at 100 is pretty decent.
Click to expand...
A few years back, I picked up an HVA 9.3 x 62 built on a FN 98 commercial action. I got it from Intersurplus. Most of the metal, with the exception of some bluing wear on the bottom plate and the bolt release was 100%. The beech stock was at about 90% with only minor wear, scratches and dents. Without the scope, it weighs just over 7 lbs. My loads are up there as well. My rifle also shoots like that without much effort, and I share your impression regarding recoil. Mine also came with a QD German scope mount that allows you to sight with the irons below the scope.

I use a Limbsaver slip on recoil pad, and wear wear a strap-on secondary pad as well. With these, I can manage two boxes; without them, 2 shots. LOLIMG_4572.jpgIMG_4571.jpg
 
The hva FN actions are superb. I have one in the zippy 8x63 Swede (currently selling in EE because I don’t use it enough) that is a tack driver and stupidly well made for what these sell for. Much nicer guns than any of the HVA 96 or 1600 series action in my opinion. FN was not mucking about.

Why anyone would buy a modern gun like a mossberg, entry level Winchester or Remington, etc with crappy injection molded plastic parts and stocks is beyond me when these can be found for less money.
 
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