Accuracy problems

Range results

Here are the results from the bullet war I was having. I was at the range this morning in less than ideal conditions (windy and raining), but I did however confirm that the Federal FMJ's were the problem. It was hard to get a good grouping because of the targets blowing back and forth in the wind but I think that this will give me a good idea of what to shoot.

Remington 55 grain Accu-Tip 3 shot group @ 100yds - .75"

Winchester 64 grain Power Point 3 shot group @ 100yds - 1.125"

Federal 55 grain FMJ boat tail 3 shot group @ 100yds - 2.25"

I would like to thank you all for all of your help, I really appreciated it
 
wobbles99 said:
I hope you don't get the same experience I did with Federal brass. I had lot's of loose pockets, sticky extractions, and a few split cases. None of the reloads were very hot either. I had them at baseline for loads and didn't have any troubles with win or hornady brass with the same loads or higher.

That is federal brass for you...Soooooft....:p
 
Been a few years since i posted some results. believe it or not i'm still fine tuning it, but now that i am at a different range that has a 300 yard target the groups have stayed at about .75" but instead of being at 100 they are at 300 now. I think if i fart around with the powder charge a little more it will tighten up a bit.
 
My thoughts on cleaning the bore is that, cleaning is over-rated. Don't clean until the groups start to open up. I shot over 900 rounds of moly bullets through my .308 target rifle and it was still shooting 1/2 MOA out to 600 yards.

Some production barrels need cleaning often and most custom match quality barrels need very little. The cleaning and group sizes will tell you what it needs. Maynard, you are using moly coated bullets which reduces that amount of cleaning needed in most barrels and I suspect your barrel is match quality.

Most production barrels need attention well before 90 rounds have been fired, never mind 900.


Regards

Aubrey
 
I think the rule of thumb torque spec is 28-30 INCH pounds....inconsistent torque might be causing some of your problems.
 
Perhaps you have a flinch? :p

Seriously your results sound pretty good to me with factory ammo.
Give your rifle some time to break in and to get used to it.

Also yes consider reloading if it bugs you that much.
 
Accuracy

I do a lot of shooting, and have been a target shooter since the 1960s. I can not think of one centerfire rifle that I have owned that could not be improved by handloading ammunition for it.

Military type FMJ .223 is not the most accurate bullet....in fact, it rates near the bottom of the accuracy scale in most cases. It was designed for a 1/14 twist barrel, and your Savage is probably close to 1/9 twist. Check your manual for specifications. If so, try heavier bullets.

I have a cheap Model 200 Stevens as a Coyote rifle. It shoots about 9/16 to 3/4 inch consistently at 100 yards, using a 60 grain Hornady and IMR 4320 powder.

Is your barrel free floated? Take a piece of paper, fold it in half, then half again. Make a U shape, and slide it down the barrel under the stock. If your rifle is supposed to be free floated, the paper should come back to within about 3 inches or so from the action. If it hangs up, the barrel is contacting the stock.

As mentioned, the torque pressure on Military Sniper Remington rifles is 65 INCH pounds. Tighten the rear to 30 inch pounds, then the front screw to the same. Go up to 40, then 50 inch pounds again tightening the rear and then the front screw. Then 55, 60, and 65 inch pounds. Then check the barrel bedding again.

A good trigger pull is essential to good shooting.
 
On the Remington 700 it's 65-in/lbs, so I don't think it'll be far off from that.

-Rohann

I doubt if anything is gained by torquing to 65 in/lbs except maybe stretching the action screws. If 50-55 in/lbs with Loktite on the threads doesn't work, neither will torquing the screws down so hard that the screws stretch and the action bends. If you have bedding issues, get the rifle glass bedded so the action has a uniform mirror image base to rest in and pillar bed the action screw holes so that torquing the screws doesn't compress the stock material.

As to spitzer FMJ bullets, I've never got them to shoot in a .22 caliber rifle, not even my .222 with it's Gaillard barrel. Yet I've shot military .30 caliber FMJs that were really good. Why there is such a disparity I don't know. But if you start handloading match bullets in your .22 centerfire rifle your groups will shrink, your scores will soar, and shooting will be much more rewarding and fun.

Getting into handloading does require a modest initial investment, but that investment is quickly recovered if you consider the difference in cost between handloads and factory ammo. But more than the ability to shoot more for the same money, is the realization that your rifle will shoot better than it ever has before.

What you need to get started is far different that what people want to sell you. The first thing you need and should purchase is a loading manual, or better yet several. These manuals provide data in several different ways. Some might give you the maximum charge weight with a corresponding velocity while others give you a maximum velocity with a corresponding charge weight, and at least one gives you the powder charge in both volume and weight measurements. I think the Lyman and Hornady books are must haves and you should have one more by the bullet manufacturer of your choice, particularly if you have a predisposition to one particular manufacture. These manuals not only provide you with load data, they also give you the basics of the handloading process and how to set up your tools for the best results.

Lets have a fast look at what you'll need. You need a press with a primer seater, and the correct shell holder that fits on the ram of the press. A ribbed primer tray that flips over the primers is both handy and inexpensive. You need dies to deprime and resize a your brass and to seat the bullet. The die box will provide you with the correct shell holder number for the cartridge you are reloading. A means of trimming and de-burring your brass is essential. You'll need a powder scale to accurately weight your powder charges. A balance beam scale is almost certainly less expensive than a digital scale, but I wouldn't skimp here as accuracy and repeatability are as much a safety issue as they are an accuracy issue. A scale check weight set is an often over looked item, but one that I consider essential to ensure that the scale indicates the correct weight. A powder trickler is another inexpensive piece of equipment and makes it easy to approach your charge weight. To prevent your brass from getting stuck in the resizing die you'll need lube and Imperial sizing wax lasts seemingly forever and is easily wiped away with a clean rag once your case is resized. Imperial Dry Neck Lube makes it easier to run the expander ball through the neck of the case. Should you get a casing stuck in the die, you can easily make a stuck case remover with a a drill bit of the proper size, a threading die, a bolt and a stack of washers. You don't "need" much else, but those other tools you end up wanting can be bought slowly over a period of time. These might include: a tumbler, a high volume priming tool, a powder measure or a digital powder measure/scale combination, primer pocket and flash-hole uniformers, bullet uniformers, some extremely precise measuring tools, a powered case trimmer, a turret or an automatic press to speed up the loading process, etc, etc. Most of us struggle along with a single stage press although loading large volumes of handgun ammo on a single stage press does get tedious, but some of these other tools can be acquired to streamline your loading operation.
 
I recently purchased a Savage model 12VLP in .223 and i am having accuracy problems with it. I am shooting factory loaded Federal 55gr. FMJ. I have put about 120 rounds through the gun, How much longer will it take to break in the stainless barrel? The scope that i have mounted on it is a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X40 mil dot with target turrets. I had this scope mounted on my 7mm mauser before the .223 and was able to achieve .75" groups at 100 yards. I have removed the stock and adjusted the trigger to the lightest setting, and loctited all the scope mounting screws. Does anyone know why I can't get sub 1" groups. One more thing, what is the torque recommendation for the front and rear action screws that hold the stock on? Thank You in advance.

Firstly, this is a myth - no such thing. That's a FACT. Period.

(and don't tell me the gun smith up the lane said so, or your cop friend said so, or your uncles grandpa said so or some guy on here said so...it's not true. From the very first round you fire through a new barrel, you decrease the life of the barrel - that's it, nothing more. Cleaning it a hundred times "between the first 20 rounds" is irrelevant. Just clean it properly as you would any other barrel REGARDLESS if it's SS, chrome lined or otherwise.)

Secondly, if you are certain that you checked and double checked your A. scope B. mounts and rings C. torque settings...then it wouldn't surprise me if your rifle is a "dud". (not saying it is, just that it wouldn't surprise me)

The reason I bring this up is this exact problem happened to me last year with a brand new Savage. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door - we're talking off the paper @ 100yds. 4-5" off at 50yds. Long story short, I sent it back to Savage and they sent me another rifle, plus a host of goodies! And what even you do, DON'T send it to that retard smith in Peterborough! Actually, I think Savage got rid of him so nevermind.

However, you don't say how far off center your POI is. Likely not that bad or you would have commented on that. BUT, if you have ruled out all other possibilities, consider my possibility. Did you purchase the rifle new? Savage is awesome to deal with - their customer service rocks!

Good luck!
 
Here are the results from the bullet war I was having. I was at the range this morning in less than ideal conditions (windy and raining), but I did however confirm that the Federal FMJ's were the problem. It was hard to get a good grouping because of the targets blowing back and forth in the wind but I think that this will give me a good idea of what to shoot.

Remington 55 grain Accu-Tip 3 shot group @ 100yds - .75"

Winchester 64 grain Power Point 3 shot group @ 100yds - 1.125"

Federal 55 grain FMJ boat tail 3 shot group @ 100yds - 2.25"

I would like to thank you all for all of your help, I really appreciated it

My bad. It's late. I see you did post your groupings...and they are just fine - could be tweaked a bit but there's certainly nothing wrong with your rifle (thank gawd) or scope. Your rifle certainly doesn't like those FMJ rounds!

Good job!
 
Been a few years since i posted some results. believe it or not i'm still fine tuning it, but now that i am at a different range that has a 300 yard target the groups have stayed at about .75" but instead of being at 100 they are at 300 now. I think if i fart around with the powder charge a little more it will tighten up a bit.

Hey, thanks for coming back with upto date results. 0.75" at 300 is awesome. Glad it all worked out for you. :)
 
Yeah thats been a few years in the works and a couple of scopes. I now have an elite 4200 tactical on it 6-24x50. The fixed 10 just wasn't enought magnification for me when shooting 300 yards. I got all the reloading stuff in a package deal and it is without a doubt worth the money. Can't wait till squirrel season opens to waste a few of those tree rats. lol.

Thanks for all of the advice on the action screws and the bedding. I bedded the action myself and tightened the screws in increments of 5. Not sure if the bedding made a huge difference, but it did make a difference. The best grouping i got at 100 yards was one ragged hole, hard to measure when the bullets pass thru the same spot, somewhere around .088". The hole was just big enough to fit a bic pen thru. Thanks again for all the help.
 
Back
Top Bottom