Accuracy question

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Mikeyman

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Hello all, I recently purchased my first centerfire rifle and brought it to the range. It is a weatherby vanguard synthetic stock in 30-06. I have shot thousands of rounds through various rimfire rifles so I am not a complete novice. Anyway - at 100 yards with premium ammo (165 gr fusion) I managed a respectable 1.25 inch 4 round group. Then I set up the 200 yard targets and it all went to crap. The best I could do after 20 rounds is 4.25 in 4 round group and the worst was like a shotgun spray that I was too depressed to measure.

My question is this - how much is it the gun / ammo and how much is my shooting ability? I bought it for the whitetail hunt this fall and I am afraid to see how I would do out to 300 yards. Anyone have any similar experience with this rifle? I naturally want to blame it on anything but my abilities but I am also aware that I need improvement.

Thanks
 
How often have you shot past 100 yards, how windy was it, and what is your scope?

Keep in mind that 4.25" at 200 will kill just about any animal out there..
 
Shooting targets at 200 is only slightly different than shooting at 100. There are a few things you need though. As Gatehouse mentioned above, and also, how clearly can you see your target? If your scope is not up to the task, the crosshairs can cover a lot of territory.
Then again, did you go back and shoot more 100 yard groups? Just in case something happened, like the scope came loose?
Lots of things can go wrong, don't be kicking yourself just yet.
 
This was my first time target shooting past 100 yards. It has a cheap bushnell banner scope that came with the package that I plan to replace. How much does the scope matter with accuracy?

It was a light wind that day and 4.25 in was the best but the average was prob closer to 6in. I know I need alot more practice but at 30 bucks a box it is tough. I'm used to .22 prices!
 
Don't be discouraged and don't give up. Every rifle is different. Some will shoot any ammo and some are very picky in what they shoot.
Some basic suggestions:
-maybe it needs cleaning, some barrels will copper up after a few rounds.
-check your scope for parallax.
-try different ammo, bullet types and weights: preferably by handloading and experimenting. You'll likely find a load that will shoot very well in it.
Good luck....wTc
 
Keep in mind that a 4" group at 200 yds is pretty respectable for a hunting rifle. If you expect 2" groups at 200 yds the bullets have to almost go through 1 hole at 100 yds to achieve that.
 
You really don't need premium ammo to kill a deer, and just because the box says premium doesn't mean it will shoot well in your rifle. Buy a few boxes of cheaper ammo to try out. I would say besides the shooter:p the scope may be the weakest link.
Here are a few thing to look at when checking over your rifle.
Take the action out of the stock and make sure everything is dry, no oil under the bedding. Put it back together and make sure you tighten the bedding screw without stripping the heads of the screw. Take your scope off (yes I know you don't want to but) and make sure the scope bases are tight. Put your scope back on and make sure those screws are tight.
 
I have tried one other brand - cheap cheap at 15$ box I think its called igman 150gr. Shot worse than the fusion stuff. Thanks for the helpfull tips from everyone so far.....
 
I agree with what everyone has said, with a few caveats.

Obviously, if you can afford a better scope like an Elite, Leupold, etc., go for it. You'll really see the difference and your confidence will go up. Having said that, I, personally, have shot a number of small (i.e., 1/2 m.o.a.) groups at 200 metres with Bushnell Banner scopes, so they are definitely up to the task, if you are.

The wind can be a surprising factor. Below is a group of 5 shots I fired at 200 metres a couple of years ago with one of my target rifles that has a Krieger barrel. After the first two shots, my buddy (who was watching through the spotting scope) called a TINY breeze that he was able to pick up by watching the leaves. (He estimated 1/2 a minute, and he was right. Of course, he's also a world class shooter and former sniper.) You can see where shots 3 to 5 landed:

BSA200mwindtarget.jpg


The moral of this story is that any breeze can really screw you up at 200 unless you're really watching. I used to do my load testing at 200, but gave up on that practice after the above experience.

However, apart from the breeze, I have noticed that often "untuned" hunting rifles shoot very, very well at 100 and seem to go to pot at 200. This actually happened with my main hunting rifle (a Remington 700 .30-06) when I first bought it in the '90s. After I bedded the action (this rifle actually needed a bit of consistent forend pressure, which is contrary to what most people advocate these days), and started seriously playing with the loads, I was able to shrink the 200 metre (3-shot) groups down to about an inch or better, which is all you could ever dream of for a hunting rifle.

Therefore, I'd urge you to check your bedding and start handloading. The experience you describe is not that uncommon, but I can't personally explain it other than to say that with good bedding and careful load tuning, you should be able shrink those groups at longer ranges.
 
Sometimes to quickest way to decide if you have a gun problem is to get someone else to shoot it. What I will do is shoot a known varmint rifle at the same time to see what kind of day I'm having, and how bad conditions are beating me up. Next either change the load or the scope, depending on which is the most convenient. Check for parallax at the different distances as well, but I'd bet on ammo.
Increaseing distance really starts to separate the good ammo from the bad. Small groups at rock throwing range like 100 yards can be little more than a fortunate accident of barrel exit time. By the time you get to 300 quality loads start to show their mettle, and lesser loads fall apart.Testing at 100 proves little, the best load at 100 may not be the best at 200.
 
I second the motion for you to check out the Bushnell 3200 scopes. They are recoil tested to withstand .375 H & H ammo. They have good glass (formerly known as Bausch and lombe scopes before Bushnell bought them out). They are rugged, and have the rainguard coating on the lens which dissipate moisture droplets to tiny specks so you can see in foggy/wet/rainy conditions.
I always used a bushnell shortsman/banner etc before this and always was wanting more in my scope performance. I broke down and bought the 3200 and now I am spoiled. They are truly GREAT for the money. I paid 279 bucks but I have seen them for less. Shop around and you will find good deals on one.
 
p-17 said:
Therefore, I'd urge you to check your bedding and start handloading. The experience you describe is not that uncommon, but I can't personally explain it other than to say that with good bedding and careful load tuning, you should be able shrink those groups at longer ranges.
Click to expand...
............. X2!


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New rifle? Could be something as simple as loose action screws or to tight on the tang. How much did you allow your barrel to heat up? Wind, to get a 4 inch group would have to be pretty brisk to say the least.
Is your group dispersed, horizontal or vertical?
As for the scope and paralax, 2 inches in any direction from center is substantial and unless you're moveing your eye/cheek weld position with every shot, not likely the culprit.
A more likely culprit is crappy bullets that lose their stability quickly past 100 yds.

bearhunter
 
Mikeyman said:
I have tried one other brand - cheap cheap at 15$ box I think its called igman 150gr. Shot worse than the fusion stuff. Thanks for the helpfull tips from everyone so far.....
Click to expand...

i consistently get sub-MOA with Igman out of all my .308s (except M305). thats not off a rest/bags either, but either off a harris bipod or my backpack. i also get it for $10.99 usually.
Igman ammo is not bad at all. i also recommend their 7.62x54R for Mosins.
 
You could also try the 180 fusions and the 150 fusions. My '06 loves the 165 and 180 gr and dislikes the 150's. Yours may be different.
 
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