Accuracy testing of two flintlocks.

BCRider

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Location
The 'Wack, BC
So today was finally the day that I got out to shoot my two flintlocks on paper after struggling to figure out a good charge and how to aim them for a good two years of hauling them out to the club's black powder trail shoots.

I'd always gotten good enough results that I felt encouraged but often I'd miss the easy ones and be left wondering what happened.

I set up the targets at 25 yards since this was about finding the accurate charge and not about me. I also shot off a padded block supporting the fore stock roughly where I tend to hold it myself.

One is a Lyman GPR flintlock in .50Cal. The other an older custom made flintlock done by a local builder (Al Brown) that passed away a few years back. That one is in .45Cal and extra long with a nice light swamped barrel. Both use rifled barrels. The GPR using their usual 1:48 twist and the Al Brown rifle using a 1:60 twist or there abouts. I've heard from local folks that knew him that he used some of each as well as some others depending on the caliber.

The plan was to start at 30 grains and work up in 5 grain steps to find the sweet spot. The Al Brown rifle went first. At 30 I had three shots that were about 1 inch center to center. And as the charges went up in the 5 grain steps the groups opened up at a ratio directly proportional to the charge. I stopped at 50 grains because the group of three shots was the size of a large melon. I went back and tried two at 30 to be sure it wasn't a fluke and the two were neatly near the bull and and the lead rings on the paper were just about touching.

The Lyman GPR was pretty much a repeat performance. Neat tidy group of approximately 1 inch from 30 grains and opening up steadily until I stopped at 45 grains since I could see where the trend was going.

For those that have run such tests of their own did you find that as the charge went higher that the group size shrunk back down? If I pushed on to 55 to 70 grains would I see a return of the tighter grouping?

Not that I'm unhappy about using the lighter charge. I only shoot for fun so this will be a little more frugal on my powder supply. But I'm confused as the cap lock underhammer .50Cal rifle I bought turned out to have a sweet spot at just over 60 grains. Which is why I'm wondering if the flint locks would sharpen up again if I went higher.

I should have tried it while I was there. But it was getting late and I was getting cold.
 
Maybe you've learned but in my case the biggest issue with flint lock rifles was getting used to the looooooonnnnng ignition/lock time lag. It was ok if I stuck with flinters but when centerfire or percussion got into the mix the lag between ignition and trigger pull time was always a challenge.

The first time I pulled the trigger on one I looked up from the sights to see what went wrong just as the charge let go. Embarrassing to say the least but it turns out I wasn't alone. Still, it is a great way to learn to hold on target and reduce flinch. When I feel I'm developing a flinch I haul out the flinter for an afternoon session and it brings back my concentration for quite a while.
 
I've played around with patched ball (.490 plus the patch) as well as .45 cal ball in a shortened sabot, both in a modern inline. I know you're having grief with a different type of ML (flint obviously, and slower twist), but here's food for thought.

Is it possible the patch isn't tight enough, and is skipping the rifling?

Poor patch material, and it's coming apart? I noticed when this happened to me (they were only heavy cotton patches) the patches on the ground were torn, and groups opened up a bunch.

I'm assuming you only use round ball?
 
Saskgunowner, I'm embarrased to say that by the time I got cleaned up and asked for a ceasefire to fetch my target board that I totally forgot about checking for the patches. I'll be out there tomorrow evening and I'll check to see if I can find any. That's a good call.

The .45 did have quite a loose fit. So with the heavier charges skipping the rifling, or whatever the patch and ball equivalent of that is COULD be an issue. But the .50 had a good tight fit and a rather thin cotton patch as sold by CVA. So I don't see it being an issue for that one.

That's the funny thing. In terms of ball and patch fit and patch type the two loads could hardly be any different. Yet they both shot great on the very light charges. But that makes me think that there is likely a second sweet spot with higher charges. Clearly more work and a second afternoon at the range is needed.... DARN! ! ! ! ! :d
 
I heard from others more experienced than myself that it's harder to find a good shooting/powerful deer hunting load for a flintlock versus the same caliber in a cap lock rifle.
In my regard I found that 100 grains of 3F Goex was just about a perfect load in my .50 caliber (.495 R.B.) JMBR hawken copy. Someone told me this same load in a .50 flintlock would be impossible to attain safely by nature of the design.
My meager flint lock experience is limited to a smooth bore/shot loads.
 
Brutus, the guys shooting copies of the classic old smoothbores like Brown Bess' and the like are using some BIG charges. Apparently it is one way to get tighter groups from the smoothbores by having a large charge and a snug fitting ball and patch. But they are also shooting bigger sizes like .62, .69 and even .72 in one case. So those might not be large charges when the weight of the ball is considered and the size of the chamber is added to the figuring.
 
Saskgunowner, I'm embarrased to say that by the time I got cleaned up and asked for a ceasefire to fetch my target board that I totally forgot about checking for the patches. I'll be out there tomorrow evening and I'll check to see if I can find any. That's a good call.

The .45 did have quite a loose fit. So with the heavier charges skipping the rifling, or whatever the patch and ball equivalent of that is COULD be an issue. But the .50 had a good tight fit and a rather thin cotton patch as sold by CVA. So I don't see it being an issue for that one.

That's the funny thing. In terms of ball and patch fit and patch type the two loads could hardly be any different. Yet they both shot great on the very light charges. But that makes me think that there is likely a second sweet spot with higher charges. Clearly more work and a second afternoon at the range is needed.... DARN! ! ! ! ! :d

Hopefully it's just something simple like that.
 
All things being equal (barrel condition and shooter skill), flinters and percussion guns should shoot equally for accuracy. In my experience, and I use GOEX 3F for main charges, my most accurate minimum target loads are a bit more that one grain of powder per caliber. That means 50 gr in the 45 cal and 60 gr in my 50 and 54 cal rifles. All my rifles have slow twist rifling for PRBs. Your 1:48 rifling might not like max charges but should hold its groups together with charges in that weight range unless your patches aren't durable enough to prevent stripping in the rifling. Maximum charges for the slow rifling twists can easily be 50% to 100% heavier than the minimum charges and sometimes, due I believe to barrel harmonics, the heavier charges will hit lower that the light charge. An example would be my 54 cal Hawken with 1" barrel prints 3" high at 50 yds with 60 gr of 3F but only 1" high with 95 gr 3F and in both cases 5 shots form one ragged hole so accuracy is maintained. Obviously the heavier charge will shoot flatter trajectory at longer distances.
I believe your patch material or your lube is the culprit: what do you use for these?
 
Assuming that you are using pure lead balls, and the barrel's aren't crudded up with carbon and lead, it most likely is the ball, patch, lube combination causing issues. Might want to try different diameter balls, and thicker/thinner patches. At some point it will all come together, just takes trigger time.
 
Back
Top Bottom