Accurate .223 NR black rifle suggestions?
- Thread starter albeaulieu
- Start date
albeaulieu
Member
- Location
- Squamish, BC
Thanks to all responders.
Like a lot of other shooters, I just like an accurate gun. Do I NEED a rifle that shoots MOA for coyotes? No. But the coyotes out here are pretty small
Like a lot of other shooters, I just like an accurate gun. Do I NEED a rifle that shoots MOA for coyotes? No. But the coyotes out here are pretty small
Thanks to all responders.
Like a lot of other shooters, I just like an accurate gun. Do I NEED a rifle that shoots MOA for coyotes? No. But the coyotes out here are pretty small
The coyotes in the center of Burnaby trotting along at night are pretty damn big!!! Must be the Squamish weather.
that gave me a chuckle...
XCR-L at 400m with 30km crosswind...Norinco Ammo
Hold on there. You have an XCR that is shooting 1/3 MOA with Norinco ball..... Everybody listen up. Sell your SL8's, ACR's, MR1's, AR15's, heck sell the bolt guns as I doubt even they will do that with Norinco ball. Simply sell all your rifles guys as we are obviously all idiots when we should have been using Norinco ball at $.20 a round in XCR's I am such an idiot. I might put my SL8 up on the EE tonight. Might as well sell off the press to because I can't touch Norinco ball with my handloads.
Moe
Thanks for the kind words hogie. I could not have got there without the help of you and cr5. Since then I have worked out loads for the 69gr SMK that you and I used and the 60gr Noslers that cr5 uses. I now have consistent 1 MOA with both. I have since settled with the 60gr Noslers as they are a true fragmenting varmint bullet as opposed to the 69gr SMK. My end goal has always been 1 MOA but also to use it on Crows. There is something awesome about watching critters exploding, so the Nosler won.
Moe
- Location
- Southern ontario
With my t97 i fire from the hip up at allah whilst screaming arab battle cries and he places all my shots at sub moa on target
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
After many years of testing and doing load development for 9 different semi-auto non-rest black (ish) rifles from the HK SL-8, MR-1, XCR, Tavor et-al I have finally come full circle......
Pay heed to my tale of woe!
In 2008 I decided that I "needed" a more accurate, semi-auto 223 for yotes (both the 4-legged and 2-legged variety). I sold my "trusty" 7 MOA 182 series Ruger mini-14 (which I had actually taken yotes with out to 300y) and proceeded to buy and sell many many firearms and deplete the savings account.
After spending "silly" amounts of $$, getting raped on depreciation again and again...... 1000's and 1000's of rounds of ammo. In the summer, fall, winter and spring. Invariably I found a load that would work in each rifle tried. But in a most depressing moment of clarity as I gazed upon a Tavor and a 1.75" 5-shot group, i thought to myself, "meh, it's pretty good, from 7" to that with load development. But is it $3000 good?"
I finally sold my last "non-restricted black rifle".
I have settled upon a Ruger mini-14..... Alas it's a new one, fresh "off the boat" (or truck as it were). It shoots cheap nork into 4". It shoots cheap MFS 55gr HP into 3.5" either one will bag a yote out to 300. I have a ladder test on the bench that I have yet to test, I suspect that it will tighten up the groups a bit.......
But really, for $850 compared to $2500+..... It's no comparison!
Every single non restricted black rifle I have ever tried shot the "cheap" stuff into 3"-7" groups.
Every single expensive non-restricted black rifle shot at least one factory loading into 2.5" (or better).
Every single rifle I have ever owned has done better with hand loads!
So I just had to ask myself, why spend $3K to do what $1K can do?
YMMV
Pay heed to my tale of woe!
In 2008 I decided that I "needed" a more accurate, semi-auto 223 for yotes (both the 4-legged and 2-legged variety). I sold my "trusty" 7 MOA 182 series Ruger mini-14 (which I had actually taken yotes with out to 300y) and proceeded to buy and sell many many firearms and deplete the savings account.
After spending "silly" amounts of $$, getting raped on depreciation again and again...... 1000's and 1000's of rounds of ammo. In the summer, fall, winter and spring. Invariably I found a load that would work in each rifle tried. But in a most depressing moment of clarity as I gazed upon a Tavor and a 1.75" 5-shot group, i thought to myself, "meh, it's pretty good, from 7" to that with load development. But is it $3000 good?"
I finally sold my last "non-restricted black rifle".
I have settled upon a Ruger mini-14..... Alas it's a new one, fresh "off the boat" (or truck as it were). It shoots cheap nork into 4". It shoots cheap MFS 55gr HP into 3.5" either one will bag a yote out to 300. I have a ladder test on the bench that I have yet to test, I suspect that it will tighten up the groups a bit.......
But really, for $850 compared to $2500+..... It's no comparison!
Every single non restricted black rifle I have ever tried shot the "cheap" stuff into 3"-7" groups.
Every single expensive non-restricted black rifle shot at least one factory loading into 2.5" (or better).
Every single rifle I have ever owned has done better with hand loads!
So I just had to ask myself, why spend $3K to do what $1K can do?
YMMV
Just buy one of these.
View attachment 17663
It's my DTA SRS in 338 Lapua. You don't need a semi auto if you have a rifle that can shoot 1/2 moa and can stretch out to over 1000 yards. I can hit 20 pound BBQ propane tanks at a Km, I don't think any coyote will be running away after getting hit with one of the 300 grain projectiles I launch from it.
This group was done with factory loads before I had a chance to do any load development for the rifle (first day out with it). It should have said 300 yards not meters.
View attachment 17664
There is no escape when you have one of these.
One rifle that does everything.
View attachment 17663
It's my DTA SRS in 338 Lapua. You don't need a semi auto if you have a rifle that can shoot 1/2 moa and can stretch out to over 1000 yards. I can hit 20 pound BBQ propane tanks at a Km, I don't think any coyote will be running away after getting hit with one of the 300 grain projectiles I launch from it.
This group was done with factory loads before I had a chance to do any load development for the rifle (first day out with it). It should have said 300 yards not meters.
View attachment 17664
There is no escape when you have one of these.
One rifle that does everything.
Very impressive shooting CR5, might have to put one of those DTA SRS's on my Xmas wish list. Curious as to what the recoil is like and magnification you're using?
Not quite sure about the one rifle that does everything statement though, I can't imagine it being very effective for fast CQB work or fun for hiking through the Mtn.'s all day at what's most likely a 12+Lbs. rifle scoped/loaded ready to shoot.
P.S. You must be quite the perfectionist to feel the need to do load development after grouping rounds like that, especially at that distance. Not being content with excellence does make for incredible performances though...
Not quite sure about the one rifle that does everything statement though, I can't imagine it being very effective for fast CQB work or fun for hiking through the Mtn.'s all day at what's most likely a 12+Lbs. rifle scoped/loaded ready to shoot.
P.S. You must be quite the perfectionist to feel the need to do load development after grouping rounds like that, especially at that distance. Not being content with excellence does make for incredible performances though...
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Very impressive shooting CR5, might have to put one of those DTA SRS's on my Xmas wish list. Curious as to what the recoil is like and magnification you're using?
Not quite sure about the one rifle that does everything statement though, I can't imagine it being very effective for fast CQB work or fun for hiking through the Mtn.'s all day at what's most likely a 12+Lbs. rifle scoped/loaded ready to shoot.
P.S. You must be quite the perfectionist to feel the need to do load development after grouping rounds like that, especially at that distance. Not being content with excellence does make for incredible performances though...
Recoil is similar to shooting a 30-06 from a light hunting rifle.
Nightforce 5.5-22x56 with NP-R2 reticle.
It's around 15 pounds but I've never weighed it to see exactly how much it is with glass.
It's surprisingly well balanced and can be shot standing fairly easily. If you were to take the 2 pound scope off of it things would be better, probably not ideal for CQB though with 5 round mags and bolt action. Muzzle blast would be insane with walls around you.
It's got a fricken laser for the close shots though
I've put it on the sling across my back and taken it out quadding/hunting all day without problems. It's nice not having a long barrel hanging out to get caught on branches as you ride by.
I use it for hunting everything and anything. It usually gets left at home these days though since I have more practical and cheaper to shoot rifles but if I could have only one it would be this one.
That group was with factory Hornady loads, my best handloads have been 1/2moa, I know it can do better but I can never figure out if it's me having a bad day or the load when I get groups closer to 1moa. It shoots almost all loads into 1 moa but that's nowhere near good enough.
When I find a load that will do 1/2 moa all day every day I will be content. I should shoot it more often.
In my opinion...
First = MR1 (Benelli MR1 Tactical Semi-Auto Rifle NR).... 1550$ to 1750$ average....
Second = TAVOR ...2500$ average (why second...Because of the price tag...)
First = MR1 (Benelli MR1 Tactical Semi-Auto Rifle NR).... 1550$ to 1750$ average....
Second = TAVOR ...2500$ average (why second...Because of the price tag...)
albeaulieu
Member
- Location
- Squamish, BC
Thanks all,
While notsorichguy may be right about the folly of combining tight groups and semi-autos, I feel compelled to take the journey myself.
Top of my list is the SL8, cruising EE in hopes of diminishing the burn of depreciation.
Polksadude's ACR with an aftermarket barrel looked pretty nice too. I'll be curious to hear about his accuracy experience.
While notsorichguy may be right about the folly of combining tight groups and semi-autos, I feel compelled to take the journey myself.
Top of my list is the SL8, cruising EE in hopes of diminishing the burn of depreciation.
Polksadude's ACR with an aftermarket barrel looked pretty nice too. I'll be curious to hear about his accuracy experience.
albeaulieu
Member
- Location
- Squamish, BC
And, while the 338 Lapua looks pretty awesome, I can't see myself putting a thousand or two rounds of .338 down range. Sweet looking gun though.
Besides, one of my best buddies is a good friend of Ronnie Barrett and somehow, sometime, that is going to pay off in a Barrett for those long, long shots.
Besides, one of my best buddies is a good friend of Ronnie Barrett and somehow, sometime, that is going to pay off in a Barrett for those long, long shots.
With glass I'm in for just over $9k with tax.
