ACOG Buyer Beware

J

jsullivan

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I just wanted to share my experience with those who own, or are thinking of buying, an ACOG optic.

I bought a TA31F (red chevron reticle) on the EE back in May. The seller (who had quite a decent rating) told me he had bought it from Wolverine Supplies.

I tried it out for a while, but I never adjusted to the ACOG and decided to sell it. After a PM from one potential buyer asking about the age of the optic, I found out you can send the serial number to Trijicon to get this information. I think this is also in part because of the number of fake-ACOGs out there.

Here's the reply I got.

Dear Jack

We have confirmed that the serial # and model # are correct. However,
our records indicate that this product was originally sold to the U.S.
Government. Therefore, we are required to report this communication to
the Department of Defense Investigation Group so that they can determine
if this product was removed from government inventory legally or
illegally. You may be contacted by the Department of Defense if they
decide to pursue an investigation of this incident.

Regards
Eric Lockhart
Trijicon Customer Service Rep
www.trijicon.com
Click to expand...

Needless to say I was shocked. I had a few more queries to buy the optic, and of course in good conscience I had to disclose this information to the potential buyer.

I contacted the guy I bought the ACOG from about this. I told him that had I known this background about the optic, I wouldn't have bought it, and asked him to take it back. He says he didn't know about this at the time he sold it to me, and I have to take him at his word.

I don't know what will come of this for me, but here's my two bits for potential buyers. Keep this in mind if you think you will ever have to:
-send an ACOG back to Trijicon for a repair or refurb (installing fresh tritium for example)
-cross the border for a course/competition

If this is something that would concern you, source the optic back to the actual retailer who would have legitimately imported and sold it. Or ask the seller to query the serial number with the manufacturer.
 
####ty situation. I would suggest immediately writing Trijicon back, and inform them that you appreciate the prompt response, and you are sorry to have caused any unnecessary concern on their part, however you have double checked the serial number you originally gave them, and you accidentally wrote down the wrong serial number in your original correspondence. I can't see what they can do, other than your own voluntary email to them, they can't prove you have one of their ACOGs, they can't prove if you did have one what serial number it is, nor can they prove that even if you did have one, the serial number you gave is even correct. I appreciate the note, and for the reasons you mention, this is a noteworthy thing to post. Thanks! But aside from losing.a couple bucks on the deal, I wouldn't fret too much about the US govt. Keep in mind they can't even prove who you are, and even if they could, they have no jurisdiction in Canada.

Good luck unloading that ACOG if you don't want to keep it. At least you are being honest with potential buyers.I commend you on your ethics.
 
ACOG also cannot do warranty work for scopes that are ITAR controlled. So any TA31F in Canada is outside of warranty work.
This is a pain in the ass, but you can avoid alot of issues if you buy through a recognized Trijicon dealer.
 
Have you followed this up with Wolverine? They should check with their supplier if this is what the serial numbers are listed as supplied to U.S. government. Or did it not come from Wolverine?
 
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I believe Police Ordnance is the Canadian distributor and warrantee center. Give them a shout. Perhaps they can help. If yours is actually a grey or black market import, there's probably not much they can do.
 
Wow, that really blows. There's somethign to be said for buyign new.

That said, the criteria for a charge of possession of property obtained by crime under section 355(a) CCC is that you ...

"did have in his possession property (specify) of a value not exceeding $5000 knowing that all of the property was obtained by the commission in Canada of an offence punishable by indictment contrary to ... "

or...

s.355(b) CCC

"did have in his possession property (specify) of a value not exceeding $5000 knowing that all of the property was obtained by the commission of the offence of ..... in (the State of New York), which offence had it occurred in Canada would have been punishable by indictment contrary to ... "

So if they decide that it was in fact stolen you could be required to surrender it or be found to be committing an offence because you now know that the property was stolen. But that's getting ahead of ourselves as we don't know the status of the item.

Good luck.
 
I think this would only be an issue to a potential purchase who intends to compete in the states. Otherwise there are probably a good number of buyers who will only ever use it in Canada.

If contacted by the state dept, just tell them you sold it.
 
if the state depart contacts him "i lost/sold it" probably would NOT be the answer they want to hear....


remember he would be on thier radar then, and would likely be stopped/refused entery into the usa or hasseled from now on

best thing if contacted by us gov would be too tell them where you got it and how you came to discover its history and ask them what they would like done about it

it may work out such as get an enduser cert (if possible)
 
I think this will only become an issue if the US DoD decided to conduct a follow up into the information provided by Trijicon. For one optic, owned by one guy, in another country it might not be worthwhile for them to follow it up.

However for me personally, I'm a US citizen by birth, so their laws still very much apply to me. I also travel to the US frequently, for shooting and otherwise.

I'm not worried about getting a PSP charge, but if the optic were seized then I'm out $1150. In fact this all came up when I was in the process of trying to sell this thing, and I really don't think anyone will be lining up to buy it now. I know I wouldn't.

Good call on following up with Wolverine though. That's on the to do list.
 
...They're not going to hang you over a scope, and most likely not going to try and repossess it. They just want to find out how it left the US, if they even bother to do that.


You should just avoid all the hassle and send me the ACOG... If the DOD wants it they can come and try and take it.
 
OZZ said:
Funny, its a stupid scope not a national secret.
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I agree but the usa after 9/11 is stupid crazey about exporting stuff
google itar violations charges or arrests and warrants

(and really im sure the us military has lost much more sensitive equipment in Iraq/afgan combat) but its there laws so were stuck following them


also contact police ordinance in ontario

I believe they are the importer so IF they brought it in it will be 100% legal import as long as no enduser cert stuff was violated
 
Very possible it may have come back from Afghan. Lots of horsetrading with US takes place over here, and often as not the stuff finds it way back to Canada.

Both the Cdn and US military have people who watch the sites like ebay for liberated material.
 
Its all because of the U.S MRE's (meals ready to eat). They suck so bad they'll trade up any kit to eat our rations. Especially, kit from someone else. I had some U.S troops begging for my rations and got a new ranger blanket for them. LOL
 
jamiejaf said:
Its all because of the U.S MRE's (meals ready to eat). They suck so bad they'll trade up any kit to eat our rations. Especially, kit from someone else. I had some U.S troops begging for my rations and got a new ranger blanket for them. LOL
Click to expand...

so, what's a ranger blanket taste like:p
 
Sell it to me for cheap if you want to unload it....I don't care if the state department comes after me....I doupt they will do anything over an optic.
 
Optics aren't a controlled item when troops are overseas or even in country from what I was told, it likely came from there or an internal trade in the US.

MRE's are quite good these days, I'd say even on par with the CDN one but a trade like this would be a possibility. Likely kit trade or just a plain old thievery from within.
 
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