ACR or SWISSARMS?
- Thread starter cz858lover
- Start date
The optic thing is a red herring. You can mount an optic just fine to a Swiss Arms without the need for cheek pieces - you just need to find an optic and mounts that are suited to it. If you stick an optic & mount designed for an AR where the comb of the buttstock is the same height as the rail, on a rifle that does not share that same design feature, you are going to have figment issues. Likewise with a rifle that has factory installed diopter sights welded to the receiver - you are going to have to make some adjustments, but it can be done.
The only thing the SA doesn't offer that the ACR can (theoretically I suppose still) is a quick change caliber conversion.
The ACR weighs more (when factoring like for like), prints bigger groups, has a sh!ttier trigger (even Gieselle's trigger for the ACR sucks in comparison), and costs about the same.
If you place a great deal of value on being able to use Stanag mags and bang away at steel at close range, I can totally see the appeal though.
The only thing the SA doesn't offer that the ACR can (theoretically I suppose still) is a quick change caliber conversion.
The ACR weighs more (when factoring like for like), prints bigger groups, has a sh!ttier trigger (even Gieselle's trigger for the ACR sucks in comparison), and costs about the same.
If you place a great deal of value on being able to use Stanag mags and bang away at steel at close range, I can totally see the appeal though.
P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
acr
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
The main reason you dont see any adoption of the ACR is that at face value its a glorified AR, so why not just buy an AR at 1/3rd to 1/2 the price and have a large availability of parts and accessories. Bushmaster and Remington Defense both thoroughly f**ked the plan of what the Magpul Masada was intended to be. The main things they messed up on was following through with the promises of offering different caibers and barrel lengths, along with handguard and stock options. Only lately (and largely this year) has there been a large turn around in not just what is available from the factory, but also what is available from aftermarket manufacturers as well.
You can get an ACR under 8lbs 
use 99% of aftermarket AR triggers .
Love the platform and it beats every other NR black rifle hands down.
You can find them for 2K used if you look around. Just found a 2nd NR one for 1850 Last week.
use 99% of aftermarket AR triggers .Love the platform and it beats every other NR black rifle hands down.
You can find them for 2K used if you look around. Just found a 2nd NR one for 1850 Last week.
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onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
You can get an ACR under 8lbs
Love the platform and it beats every other NR black rifle hands down.
You can find them for 2K used if you look around. Just found a 2nd NR one for 1850 Last week.
What I really like about it is that it has so much potential to be what ever you want it to. CQB to DMR, 5.56 to .50Beo.
The optic thing is a red herring. You can mount an optic just fine to a Swiss Arms without the need for cheek pieces - you just need to find an optic and mounts that are suited to it. If you stick an optic & mount designed for an AR where the comb of the buttstock is the same height as the rail, on a rifle that does not share that same design feature, you are going to have figment issues. Likewise with a rifle that has factory installed diopter sights welded to the receiver - you are going to have to make some adjustments, but it can be done.
The only thing the SA doesn't offer that the ACR can (theoretically I suppose still) is a quick change caliber conversion.
The ACR weighs more (when factoring like for like), prints bigger groups, has a sh!ttier trigger (even Gieselle's trigger for the ACR sucks in comparison), and costs about the same.
If you place a great deal of value on being able to use Stanag mags and bang away at steel at close range, I can totally see the appeal though.
hey what kind of nf scope and rings are those?
The fanboy in me just wants to scream "get the Swiss, you fool! The trigger, the accuracy!"
The practical side of me says get the ACR.
The SA is a truly exceptional firearm. The trigger is pure bliss to pull, the groups are excellent, and the ergonomics are amazing (for me). The downside is I cannot easily mount my ATPIAL on for night time shooting. I cannot easily mount a flashlight for night time shooting. I cannot easily mount... you see where I'm going with this? And the aftermarket forend to enable easy accessories mounting is heavy as sin, and sin weighs you down for eternity. Yeah, it's that heavy.
The ACR is a great firearm. The trigger is good, and can be great. The groups can be good to excellent (depends on your barrel?), and the ergonomics are.... perfect? No real downside, except that it isn't a Swiss Arms.
Long story short, I would recommend you get the ACR, while I go look for another Swiss Arms for myself before these goofy marking regulations come into force.
The practical side of me says get the ACR.
The SA is a truly exceptional firearm. The trigger is pure bliss to pull, the groups are excellent, and the ergonomics are amazing (for me). The downside is I cannot easily mount my ATPIAL on for night time shooting. I cannot easily mount a flashlight for night time shooting. I cannot easily mount... you see where I'm going with this? And the aftermarket forend to enable easy accessories mounting is heavy as sin, and sin weighs you down for eternity. Yeah, it's that heavy.
The ACR is a great firearm. The trigger is good, and can be great. The groups can be good to excellent (depends on your barrel?), and the ergonomics are.... perfect? No real downside, except that it isn't a Swiss Arms.
Long story short, I would recommend you get the ACR, while I go look for another Swiss Arms for myself before these goofy marking regulations come into force.
The ACR is a decent rifle with a few tweaks and I like it, but the Swiss Arms family will always be my first choice. I've had my Blue Star for what seems like forever and my CQB was amongst the very first shipment to Canada, just like its big brother. The carbine offers the best of both worlds. I don't like hanging a ton of extra Gucci kit off my working firearms, so picatinny rails or lack thereof were never an issue for me. It's only in recent years that I've given serious consideration to scoping them as my eyes age. I preferred diopter iron sight versions, however, the aftermarket picatinny rails have worked just fine for me. I'm lucky I guess, but the ergonomics of the Swiss Arms design fit me like a glove. I don't even need a riser for proper cheek weld.
If your budget permits, get both, but if I can have only one its always going to be the Swiss Arms.
If your budget permits, get both, but if I can have only one its always going to be the Swiss Arms.
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
I have an NR ACR, and I've handled and shot a couple of SA.
Things I like about the ACR:
controls are very similar to what a AR is
takes Stanag mags
AR triggers can be made to fit (Giessele Super ACR trigger is quite good)
you have multitple stock & handguard options
barrel is free floated
can use any AR flash hider or comp you want on the barrel
super easy to mount any optic with the continuous top rail, rail height is perfect for any AR height BUIS or optics mount. Don't have to use a cantilever scope mount.
action is super smooth and non reciprocating left side charging handle
cleanup is much easier than with a AR because of the piston operating system
Calibre changes are possible with the quick change barrel nut, I know the following have been done: 300blk, 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel, 7.62x39, 450 bushmaster & 30rem AR.
lots of AR type accessories can be used easily (if you are into that sort of thing), lights, vert grips, slings etc
Things I don't like:
It is a bit heavier than I would like, feels front heavy compared to my ARs
Getting spare parts from bushmaster can take a while. My LGS took 14months to get me a factory handguard.
The main reason I went with a ACR over a SA is the SA was prohibited at the time. And it would not surprise me with the current federal government if the SA went back on the prohibited list again.
Things I like about the ACR:
controls are very similar to what a AR is
takes Stanag mags
AR triggers can be made to fit (Giessele Super ACR trigger is quite good)
you have multitple stock & handguard options
barrel is free floated
can use any AR flash hider or comp you want on the barrel
super easy to mount any optic with the continuous top rail, rail height is perfect for any AR height BUIS or optics mount. Don't have to use a cantilever scope mount.
action is super smooth and non reciprocating left side charging handle
cleanup is much easier than with a AR because of the piston operating system
Calibre changes are possible with the quick change barrel nut, I know the following have been done: 300blk, 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel, 7.62x39, 450 bushmaster & 30rem AR.
lots of AR type accessories can be used easily (if you are into that sort of thing), lights, vert grips, slings etc
Things I don't like:
It is a bit heavier than I would like, feels front heavy compared to my ARs
Getting spare parts from bushmaster can take a while. My LGS took 14months to get me a factory handguard.
The main reason I went with a ACR over a SA is the SA was prohibited at the time. And it would not surprise me with the current federal government if the SA went back on the prohibited list again.
That's only a factor because if many government agencies chose to use it as their rifle, it must be good.
Mini 14 target with inexpensive archangel stock will shoot with these other options at a much lesser price point. They aren't as cool and are a bit clunky, but they are known to shoot with the Swiss Arms. 1 moa capable rifles. Back when they were under 1K. I paid about $130 or so for the stock. $40 trigger job and you're good to go. The problem is people keep confusing the target version with the regular one of the old days.
Also why didn't you guys get the PE90 target model if going for optics? No chin welds etc. For a red sight put on a Hendsolt RSA or Zeiss Z point and you're laughing. It's a great combination.
I had a Conquest 6.5-20x 50mm on this rifle and no chin weld issues. That being said the 3-9x 40mm Burris E1 seems like a much more natural fit for this rifle. The larger optic came off as a bit of overkill. I have had 1 moa groups 5 rounds at 100 with 62 grain American eagle out of mine. It's a 1:10 twist version.
Not as good as the other one listed here, but still pretty good for 300 metres.
I have held off getting an ACR and a SL8. With the SL8 there were a few things I didn't like. Also when all done up they are very expensive if going for G36 look or they end up looking like an ACR. With the ACR the costs also creep up quickly once you start modding it up. Eventually I'm sure I will get an ACR. If choosing one right now... the Swiss is a quality build but as already mentioned it has dated ergonomics. The ACR has good ergonomics. If looking for something to keep your whole life with pride of ownership then get the PE90 Swiss Arms. If looking for a utilitarian rifle that will do a lot and can be modded. Then get the ACR. The ACR will work better for most.
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