Action opinions?

T

TrxR

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Anyone know what the average cost it to blueprint/true a Remington 700 action and install a new barrel ? Is it worth it or are you better off buying an aftermarket action with the 700 footprint. I am wanting to jump into the long range game and am still debating on what direction to go.

Thanks
 
Leave aside the cost of barrel installation - that's the same whether you are installing the barrel on a Remington or on a custom action.

There's probably no such thing as an "average cost" to blueprint/true up a Remington. Different smiths will do different things, will take more or less time to do them, and charge more or less per hour. You could easily see prices in the $100 - $500 range.

In most cases, my opinion is that you are better off to buy a better action, rather than improving an existing one. Don't get me wrong; properly done, a blueprinted Remington (or other) action can shoot fully as well as a custom action. But in the end, it's "just" a trued-up Remington. If you ever try to sell it, its market value will likely be a lot less than the sum of your purchase price and the work needed to get it fixed up.

Custom actions aren't terribly expensive these days; we are quite spoiled, we have a great many very good actions to choose from.

I would suggest that you figure out what you want (single shot, or repeater? Better-than-bone-stock accuracy, or topnotch match-winning accuracy? etc). Then figure out the best way to achieve that.

If you haven't already tried shooting a variety of long range rifles, it would be a good idea to try various ones ASAP - that will help you better decide what it is you really want.
 
This question was first discussed in Precision Shooting magazine many years ago and the debate goes on. It is still less to blueprint the Remington, but you'll find that most serious shooters spend more to have a top-line action. I remember one comment from 20+ years ago that the Rem is still a factory action and the customizing does not add more value.

Regards,

Peter
 
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I was condemplating having a rifle built. If your going to build from scratch, I think a custom action makes sense. The cost difference isn't much. The cost of a rem700 sps plus blueprinting is about the price of a custom action. However, tac ops in the states makes rifles, and garentees 1/4moa. Their rifles use rem700 actions. So if you already own a rem700 and decide to go the blueprinting route, don't worry about accuracy.
 
Truing is not 'always' necessary. There are few instances when a factory action is used as is. If you have an action already in 700, then have it checked to see what the gains in truing might include.

A nice article I read, where a 700 was used without truing.
ht tp://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek074/
 
I will be starting from scratch. With the custom actions is there any reason to stay away from the ones that have the rem footprint? Like the Stiller predator, Pierce or the Barnard S? What would you suggest?

Thanks
 
Bandits said:
Truing is not 'always' necessary. There are few instances when a factory action is used as is. If you have an action already in 700, then have it checked to see what the gains in truing might include.

A nice article I read, where a 700 was used without truing.
ht tp://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek074/
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True, but the problem is if you don't have the tools to do this yourself by the time you've paid someone to spend the time setting up so they can check it you've probably spent what it would cost to blueprint it.
 
I have done it both ways, if you are looking at a Stiller, then their is no point in buying a cheap REM700 pulling it apart and having it blue printed. The Stiller will not be much more $. If you are looking at a Barnard, then their is a price difference and having a Rem 700 blue printed will be cheaper even if you buy a cheap Rem as a donor.
 
Ive been doing some quick looking at the stiller and barnard actions. I have found the barnard S Canadian pricing but havent really found the Canadian pricing on the Stiller Predator or Diamondback. I also assume none of these actions some with a trigger or recoil lug?

Also any suggestions on good laminate stock maker that will ship to Canada?

Thanks
 
What do you guys think of the V bedding block that barnard offers for there actions? Do you think it would work as well as traditional bedding?
 
Barnard block works great but you need a person to place it PROPERLY into the stock or it wil be crooked, a well known gunsmith does not like it but with all due respect he does not have CNC inletting so he probably could not ensure it was PERFECTLY STRAIGHT, and so has taken the barnaard bedding block in the gun i have and re pillared it and I bought it that way, would have preferred to have it done wih the barnard block by Ian,

Jefferson
 
TrxR said:
Anyone know what the average cost it to blueprint/true a Remington 700 action and install a new barrel ? Is it worth it or are you better off buying an aftermarket action with the 700 footprint. I am wanting to jump into the long range game and am still debating on what direction to go.

Thanks
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I like the foot print of the older Winchester lever rifles. Blue prints are for dummies... If you know what youre doing ... just do it.:p
 
It shouldnt be too hard to make sure its square if the stock was inleted before you shaped it as you would still be working with square objects.

When he pillar bedded it did he add a Remington style recoil lug?
 
TrxR said:
I will be starting from scratch. With the custom actions is there any reason to stay away from the ones that have the rem footprint? Like the Stiller predator, Pierce or the Barnard S? What would you suggest?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I have a stiller Predator / trued Rem 700's / some Barnard S's / and a Barnard SM. No doubt in my mind that the Barnard 'S''s are the best. My stocks for the S's all have the Barnard V blocks which accept the little recoil spigot on the bottom of the action. Easy change overs. Easy switching barrels. Next best IMO is the Barnard SM (repeater) which uses a sandwich style recoil lug. The SM's will cost more as you need a mag system. Neither of the Barnards are Rem 700 drop-ins .. don't think that Rem 700 footprint means it fits a Rem stock inlet as the Barnards are longer. But, if you are buying aftermarket anyways, you can get the proper inlet.
In my stable, Stiller comes in 3rd accuracy wise...but they do shoot well. Trued Rem 700's are next.
If you go with the Barnard, also look at the P action as it includes a good trigger.
Peter Dobson at Hirsch Precision will have everything you will need if you go with a Barnard.
Jefferson --- I just did a home bedding installation of a V-block in a Rem Varmint stock. My next one goes to Ian!!!
 
TRX you do a search for member on this site
Ian Robertson
send him a PM and ask him for some guidance believe me he knows more about all the clone 700 custom actions and was a Barnard dealer as well Stiller,Borden & Defiance machine for years. and if you want a rifle put togeather he has a state of the art new lathe and he can operate it!!!! All the guns I have and seen are all just plain tackdrivers.He can throat your barrel specific to bullets you want to use. and his bedding jobs are a piece of art.
I would not get a gun built by anyone other than Ian.
here is target shot with gun Ian barreled for me this year in 223 rem 1/7 twist 30.5"
Most people will say o yah another internet group well there was 5 shooters all shooting at 300y at Stittsvile ranges day before the Canadian Nationals at Conaught.
P1080982.jpg

here is 100 yard five shot group
P1080481.jpg
 
TrxR said:
Manitou what action was that rifle using?
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TrxR its a Barnard S only thing about a Barnard is when you see a Remington
action showing pressure,marks of extractor on base of cartridge,primers flowing around firing pin & hard bolt lift. Well with a Barnard you don,t see any of those indicators. I have never had a hard bolt lift but I knew I was way over on pressure when the primers where removed they came out O pressure on press and cases are toast won,t hold a new primer.
I choose not to use a V block I like the way Ian completly beds the whole action and the other nice thing about Barnard the lug is not between barrel and action its in middle of action (recoil spigot)

If you do not put a little bolt grease on your lugs of the 700 type actions they will gall and I have seen stainless actions do this and have caused permanent damaged to action. I use a light amount of grease on the 3 lugs but Ian claims the Barnard will never gall.
My brother is building a 30br he is looking at getting a Pierce Titanium action
21oz to keep in light class. He would have used Barnard as he has built many rifles but he said the Barnard is absolutly the best action he has used,but they are over 2lbs
a little heavy but for F class to me they are the only way to go.
manitou
 
I have not used a Barnard but I've heard nothing but good stuff about them. My F-Class rifles are built on a RPA (very good ) and a Swing (very old but very good nevertheless. Mag fed, tactical style rifles I own are built on a Defiance ( excellent and super smooth ) PGW ( very hard to beat but I don't know if they sell actions only or whether you have to buy the complete rifle ) and trued Remington ( good but still a Remington ). I used to own a Stiller but had a bad experience and wasn't impressed with Stiller's service.
 
custom actions

I'm a gunmaker myself and can only advice the following:
If you own one yourself and are looking at re-barreling for whatever reason, then in my book, trueing your Remy 700/#7 is a pure necessity and not really an option if you're looking for fine accuracy and not a 'plain jane' working rifle.
The extend of the 'blue-printing', the quality of barrel used, the caliber, the machining-/hand-fitting skills of the gunsmith/machinist doing all the work and the quality of machines/tooling used in the process all determines the final outcome. However, fact is: after all is said & done you'll still have a plain Remingtoin action with all of it's short-comings.
*In retro-spec: custom actions are called 'custom' for a simple reason.
Overall; they tend to use better materials, better overall machining quality, tighter tolerances and finally they are 'heat-treathed' (or at least should be) and there should be no need for 'blue-printing'. No doubt the better way to go for the serious competion or long range shooters. Only thing I don't like personally is that they are all based on the same design: just another Rem. 700 'blue-print'.
*I'm presently working on my own design and for sure it will be quite different from the competition, but more on that later.
 
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