Action shooting with a .22??

John in B.C. said:
No one is saying there is anything wrong with rimfire events. The issue arises when there is an attempt to incorporate them into an IDPA or IPSC match. .22 does not fit in either as part of a regular match.

As has been pointed out IDPA is based on shooting using common service/concealed carry firearms that an individual might choose for defence.

IPSC is based on 3 concepts - accuracy, speed and Power.

.22 rimfire is an excellent training tool and I often advise new shooters to make a .22 their first purchase. As Moike has pointed out the reduced cost results in a lot more time behind the sights.

BUT....if .22 action shooting is the goal then it should be developed apart from the established disciplines. Just has been done by Canuck44 and his crew with idpa.

If all goes as planned I hope to put together a rimfire action match either this winter or next spring - depending on how much snow we get this winter.

And that is my advice to anyone with an interest in rimfire action shooting...quit whining that no one is organising it in your area - do it yourself. Odds are once you get the ball rolling more people will pitch in to help.

And if you do decide to organise something don't be a tactifool - do it right, reserve the range and shoot in a safe controlled environment.

John
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And when you take on the task like Danimal did, if people make fun of you or are telling you that what you are doing is wrong and/or unsafe, just try and take it as constructive criticism even though these people may sound like narcissists!
 
John has made some good points regarding .22 Action Pistol shooting. As far as IDPA and a potential .22 Division is concerned NO decision has been made and there has been no indication that such a division will be shot in regular IDPA matches. This is an assumption made by some shooters that is not grounded in fact. It may well be but at this point in time no decision has been made.

It will be my recomendation to HQ that .22 LR will not be included in regular matches for the following reasons:

1. The scoring zone on a regular IDPA target is to large and offers little challenge at distances normally shot at IDPA matches using .22 pistols.
2. Finding .22LR bullet holes in targets that have been patched is time consuming and will slow down a match considerably.
3. Steel legs found on some target activators and steel poppers used as activators may or may not present a problem with light .22 ammunition.

As a stand alone match or side match where stages are designed with .22LR in mind, using suitible targets such shoots have merit, may encourage new shooters into the sport at relatively low costs; a real benefit for families with young shooters interested in participating with mom and dad at the range.

For the past three or four years we have been shooting idpa .22 matches in the winter here in Terrace. I think we may settle on a target design this year. None to date have worked all that well for a variety of reasons.

We apply all the IDPA shooting rules so from the stand point of practicing the use of cover, shooting in tactical sequence/priority etc so our skill sets, such as they are, remain razor sharp.:D We don't set up stages where reloads are necessary unless everyone has two mags for their guns. Too, nobody wants to be dropping mags into slush, snow or wet gravel depending on conditions. Equity and common sense prevails. If all our shooters have holsters for their .22 pistols we start from the holster. Shooters without holsters start from the low ready position. Shooters with holsters have that option as well. All our SO's are certified and capable.

We don't have a large population up here and to date there doesn't seem to be the demand for summer .22 idap events. If there was or if such demand arises, I am sure we can find volunteers to set up a club match to accomodate. With the right size target, and proper stage design .22 idpa events can be a lot of fun. If such events encourage new shooters to enter the shooting sports all the better. If it allows families on tight budgets to get into the sport or have their youngsters participate so much the better. If it allows us to get out on the weekend with our friends in the winter and have some shooting fun, great.

Will it effect those who don't want to participate in .22 events? Nope, not one bit. Will such adivision force clubs to include the division into their matches, nope. Will it allow them to do so if they want to? Yes.

Lastly, I would appeal to all shooters to keep your action shooting confined to certified ranges. Whether we like it or not due to the present political climate in Canada we are but a vote away from losing most of our shooting activities. Accidents happen under the most controlled conditions and the chances of a major injury occuring outside of such controlled environments rises substantially.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Lastly, I would appeal to all shooters to keep your action shooting confined to certified ranges. Whether we like it or not due to the present political climate in Canada we are but a vote away from losing most of our shooting activities. Accidents happen under the most controlled conditions and the chances of a major injury occuring outside of such controlled environments rises substantially.

Take Care

Bob
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:agree:
 
In fairness to all I should add that if shooting clubs/ranges turn away attempts to establish events like action .22 without at least giving it a try after satisfying safety concerns then we will see such events turn to crown land for their venues.

Take Care

Bob
 
Moike said:
I agree with BROCOLT. “There is nothing wrong with getting trigger time on a rimfire”.

I think .22 matches are a great way to introduce people to the shooting sports. It is low recoil, low cost, and little noise. I also believe they are a great training tool for IPSC, USPSA and PPC for the before mentioned reasons. I have a .22 kit for my Edge and that is predominately what I shoot. Using the .22 top end on my Edge I am developing the same neural pathways, coordination, muscle memory, transitioning and target acquisition skills as I would be using a .40. The only real difference is your lack of practice with recoil control. Personally I find shooting the .22 pistols very similar to shooting an open gun (except for the muzzle blast of course) and would have no problems if people were to shoot level I matches with their .22 pistols (or rifles) on my squad. I makes no difference to me what other people choose to shoot. If it gets more people out on the ranges and pulling triggers I am all for it! We need more people in the shooting sports. Look around at your next range event and see how many shooters are under 35 - 40 years of age; I’d bet a lot more are over 40 than under. We have lost a generation of shooters to liberalized/prejudicial views and we better work hard to get them back or we are all going to suffer from a general population who fear guns and believe firearms should only be processed by those in uniform. I once met an aboriginal leader and when I brought up the discussion of prejudice his words to me were, “If you dislike me, my views or my skin color come and spend a week at my house.” I thought that statement was quite profound and I strongly agree with his chosen methodology. If more people were on the range pulling triggers we, the gun owning population of Canada, would have more support so that when registry votes in the House come up they will be defeated. We should be encouraging all shooting, not eliminating people from the sport because We should be encouraging all shooting, not eliminating people from the sport because hegemonic masculinity precludes the use of mouse guns!

It has been my experience that when people get interested in shooting starting out with the .22’s they get hooked on the shooting sports; it’s cheap! (that’s how I got the shooting bug) When people start out on centerfire they think a lot about the price. It is hard to justify the cost initially. (After a year or two shooting it seems like it is hard to stop the spending on the shooting sports!)

Mike Burrell (for those who don’t recognize the name he is the Canadian IPSC Standard Champion and has been for a long time) once told me he had a .22 Ruger Rifle that he shot a couple hundred rounds out of every weekend when he was a kid at his cabin and that what got him into IPSC. He grew to like shooting as fast and accurately as he could. Just imagine if he had to started out with a 9mm or a .40. Could he have afforded it? Would it have pushed him out of shooting? To those reading this post; What did you start shooting with? .22? Probably!
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Great job! & well put.. :) :agree:

Now I never said it had to be like IPDA or IPSC by rules word for word just incorp some of it's safety issues to make it safe. Also target ideas like both IPSC/USPSA Cardboard Target & maybe 6" or 8" steel plates just for the tink / noise factor. this idea of .22 rimfire is for fun, family & new shooters alike. I have seen some great ideas with a Ruger arms shoot & kids and think it would be great to have this going across Canada 3/4 times a year.

THis is a good idea on what I'm tring to get going. great fun for all...

http://www.ruger.com/micros/rugerRimfire/rules.html

Video link
http://www.ruger.com/micros/rugerRimfire/action.html
 
Yes, that's the kind of thing that I suggested to the original poster back on page 1. They run it locally in Vancouver/Mission BC
 
I often play the action games specially the shooting games are my favorite games.I am also finding a game that allows .22 shooting and i will share it with you as early as i found it.
 
I'm happy to hear that there are options out there. For that action competition shooters out there... how do you practice? I'm going to guess that running around the range is frowned apon during normal range times. Do organizers book the range for weekly practice?

Sorry for all the newbie questions but .... Well, I'm a newbie.
 
John in B.C. said:
Yes the range or parts of it are booked for practice.

John
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At my club in Pitt Meadows, there are 2 bays that are specifically set aside for Black Badge holders. Here, you may do draws, drag out props/target stands/limited numbers of walls and fault lines (which can simulate your walls) and set up an IPSC stage to practice. However, I didn't spend a single day this year setting up any stages at my home club to practice. I just did function testing and static firing.

I find that more of my practice moving and such is done at matches (level I and even level II). I spend most of my range time doing just target shooting, as the trigger control and the target acquisition is far more important than the running fast part. Eg. My friends have superimposed video of us, and despite the fact that they're actually moving faster than me between positions, the amount of time I spend shooting more than makes up for the time difference.

As for movement, if you have a long hallway (or even a small hallway), practice dry firing there. Treat each doorway as a shooting position, and throw a couple of post it notes on the walls in the rooms. Just try running down your hall, stopping to acquire a sight picture at each doorway. Important skills, and can be done without heading to the range or doing any actual shooting.

Lately, I've begun to treat IPSC as a bunch of individual skills, and not all of them need to be practiced on the range. Once you're proficient at each, tying them together is a breeze.
 
After the confiscation of handguns in the UK the IPSC shooters started doing what they call minirifle - basically IPSC with .22 rifles. We did a few matches at EOHC about 8 years ago and folks (most of whom hadn't tried action shooting before) had fun with with it. A lot of the links on the EOHC site are dead, so here are links to the documents from the UK club that got it started:
firearmstraining.ca/minirifle-target.pdf
firearmstraining.ca/minirifle-example_postal_pack.pdf
 
John in B.C. said:
This is the second time someone posted about these shoots on Crown land.

Is it just me or is this totally retarded??????

How can this be safe or for that matter....SANE!

How can you be sure someone isn't going to just wander by into your line of fire. What do you use for a back stop??? What about insurance? What about an RO?

If you want to hold any type of 'action shooting' do it at the range.

Be smart and be safe.

John
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NO KIDDING!!
I just watched some videos from said "event' and I would not want to participate or be within one LIGHT YEAR of said event!

Terrifying does not quite grasp what it represents to the future of gun ownership in Canada!!!

Damn it boys THINK!!!

1) get some proper training before you pull mall ninja stuff like that.

2) if you do not get proper training and pull crap like that DO NOT POST VIDEOs of your antics on the damned internet!!!


3) I sure hope this is a coincidence.............http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532568&highlight=nonquon




EDIT TO ADD>................

cbabes said:
We are our own worst enemies. Why make fun of the guy Quigley? He is a member of my gun club and shoots IDPA. He just wants to have fun like the rest of us. May not be your style of fun but no need for these types of comments. He helped me set up some stages at my indoor club yesterday and we had a blast.
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Wait?? What?? .............I am going to just sit here now and shake my head for a while.

PLEASE THINK PEOPLE!! THINK!!
 
cbabes said:
Well Stormy, I guess I will be CGN member 10,000 to get into with you. I love what you do for our cause but please elaborate on your head shake related to my comment?
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""get into it with me" over this? Well what ever floats your boat.

I was shaking my head over the part of your post that I bolded.

If you consider that bolded portion with my original post I would trust that you would get the gyst. Think in terms of the work I do (and I appreciate the comment) Think of what DAMNED STUPID stunts like those shown in the videos (did you see them) can have on the shooting sports in general in Canada and Action sports in specific.
 
cbabes said:
I was thinking you were making fun of IDPA.
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No, I was just SHOCKED that some of the individuals in the video actually had some training. If they shoot IDPA at your club I would surmise that they have taken the IDPA holster qualification course. Thus they would have a rudimentary understanding as to how events like this SHOULD be run.

If you look at the comments on that video you will see that they do not understand the risks that they presented to the general public and the shooting sports in specific with their antics.

I think that ACTION .22 is a great thing and have considered setting up some sort of event myself. However their way is certainly not the way it should be done. This is particularly the case if they have access to a range that would be suitable.
 
stormbringer said:
No, I was just SHOCKED that some of the individuals in the video actually had some training. If they shoot IDPA at your club I would surmise that they have taken the IDPA holster qualification course. Thus they would have a rudimentary understanding as to how events like this SHOULD be run.

If you look at the comments on that video you will see that they do not understand the risks that they presented to the general public and the shooting sports in specific with their antics.

I think that ACTION .22 is a great thing and have considered setting up some sort of event myself. However their way is certainly not the way it should be done. This is particularly the case if they have access to a range that would be suitable.
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:cheers:
 
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