Actual Grizzly Shooting
- Thread starter albertacowboy
- Start date
Sasquatch said:
This is very true. I suspect that the majority of bears shot in "self defense" probably did not need to be killed. Most charges are bluffs and it's mostly just posturing. I've never shot a bear in self defense (in 10 years of working every season in bear country) and I know only one guy personally who's actually had to kill a bear that wasn't wounded.
And I do agree with you about bullet choice. Shot placement is most important and then you need to worry about adequate caliber and bullet construction.
They say that if you draw a line between an animals left eye and right ear, and another between the right eye and left ear, where the two intersect is the best place to kill that animal with a single blow.
Don't know how true it is, but looking at bear skulls it's got some validity i guess
Black bears aren't all that tough, compared to grizzes. And they don't have that same 'fight to the death' mentality.
There is actually a recorded incident of a 7 year old girl driving off a large black bear with a wood axe.
And yes - there have been several stories (one just a couple of years ago) where a man was able to kill a bear with a knife in an attack. I asked about what kind of knife the guy had in that incident and found out it was some cheap thing, not even a particularly good knife
too bad - some knife manufacturer would have made out really good there "our knife can kill a bear, and still slice tomatoes THIS thin....."But if we're talking about actually choosing a gun for bear defense, then the biggest, widest, most bone-breaking hole you can put in them is obviously best. If we all had unlimited money, unlimited time to practice, and didn't feel recoil, that's what everyone would want.
sometimes you gotta go with what you've got - but most people could at least afford a good ole maverick shotgun and slugs.
Pick the biggest gun that you're comfortable practicing with regular given your budget (even if that means one in your closet right now because you can't spring for a new gun), choose the best load for it, and pratice.
But like someone always says at the end of these - your brain is still your very best defense against mr bear. Use it wisely and you probably won't have a problem.
Amphibious said:the old 6.5x55 has killed and continues to kill lots of moose. and it's only 100 to 200ft.lbs ahead of the .243.
Currious.....
impact energy has nothing to do with the success the 6.5 swede has. it has everything to do with a bullet of high sectional density at moderate velocity, teaming up to create deep penetration of vital organs. A 160 gr. 6.5mm bullet has a SD equalling a 30 caliber 220 gr.
A 243 bullet would have to weigh 135 grains to equal the 160 gr. 6.5mm
I, personally, would not want a 243 in my hands for any big game, if something larger was available. IMO, a 257 Roberts is a good step up
A 243 bullet would have to weigh 135 grains to equal the 160 gr. 6.5mm
I, personally, would not want a 243 in my hands for any big game, if something larger was available. IMO, a 257 Roberts is a good step up
1899......I'm not planning on writing my memoirs here, but I have hunted and guided for grizzlies for many years and in a number of provinces and territories. I have had some close encounters and hammered a couple over the years. Only one wasn't previously wounded. A big gun also helps you avoid getting into a charge situation and more than once I have managed to dump a wounded bear on its ears before it got into heavy cover and ruined my day. Number one priority is to avoid a charge in the first place.
I have personally shot grizzlies with a .270, .30-06, .300 Weatherby, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H. I have seen them shot with many other cartridges.
No, I do not consider the .270 a good grizzly cartridge.
Bigger is better, as long as you can handle it. The .30-06 with a stout bullet is a sensible minimum. When I am guiding in grizzly or polar bear country I carry a .375 H&H with a stout 300 grain bullet. When I point it at something it goes down.
If a bear bites my ass I am going to be sad, if it bites a clients ass, the outfitter and I are going to get sued.
Some of the tourism guides in the Churchill region, who are faced with the possibility of having to stop a big Nanook, are packing .458 Winchester magnums and various .416's. The same is true in Alaska.
I have personally shot grizzlies with a .270, .30-06, .300 Weatherby, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H. I have seen them shot with many other cartridges.
No, I do not consider the .270 a good grizzly cartridge.
Bigger is better, as long as you can handle it. The .30-06 with a stout bullet is a sensible minimum. When I am guiding in grizzly or polar bear country I carry a .375 H&H with a stout 300 grain bullet. When I point it at something it goes down.
If a bear bites my ass I am going to be sad, if it bites a clients ass, the outfitter and I are going to get sued.
Some of the tourism guides in the Churchill region, who are faced with the possibility of having to stop a big Nanook, are packing .458 Winchester magnums and various .416's. The same is true in Alaska.
Amphibious said:
The Great Todbartell has spoken!
Well, you shoudl have seen that one coming..
The 6.5x55 status as a legendary killer of small Swedish moose is based on Sectional Density, as was the 7x57 and 175gr bullets.
Gatehouse said:Well, you shoudl have seen that one coming..
The 6.5x55 status as a legendary killer of small Swedish moose is based on Sectional Density, as was the 7x57 and 175gr bullets.
not to mention the 303 British with 215 gr. (SD .318)
Sasquatch said:
that is true. both cartridges were loaded with heavy for caliber round nose soft points, and muzzle velocities were 2300-2400 fps. this proved to be a deadly combo
todays wonder bullets that didnt exist back then have changed things somewhat. a guy could load a 120 or 130 gr. Barnes X in a 6.5x55 and it would probably out penetrate the old 160 gr. soft point loads more often than not. likewise, a 7x57 loaded with a 140 gr. X would dig as deep as a 175 gr. soft point.
but, like an old friend, you can always depend on sectional density
I remember the story of the prospector near Dawson City a few years ago killing the black bear with an axe. Is that the one you mean? Apparantly the bear was quite serious about chewing on him. That is one tough dude. Same year the bear took the girl out of the tent near there and the couple in Kluane had the run in with the grizzly or thereabout. That grizzly in Kluane as I recall was a very young bear, weighed something like 130lbs. It was too thin and hungry apparantly but they had no luck in fighting it off. Grizzlies are certainly more determined that your average black bear, but nothing is certain.
Seems like the high SD bullets have reputations for killing far better than they should and this has made some calibers seem better killers. The .416 seems a good example of this with it's 400 grainers.
I have killed enough very large and heavy game to have based my choices on that. As Keith said, " I like to do my hunting before I shoot".
Those guides in grizzly country don't carry big guns for the exercise of it.
I posted some pics on here awhile back of a bison that hit the dirt on one shot too. Heavy big bullet 570 grainer from a .50/140. It works for me. Bison don't go down easy, in fact rifles smaller than .30/06 with 180s or so are illegal for their hunting here.
Nothing wrong with a .375 and 300s, but it's a long step up from a .243 or the like.
Seems like the high SD bullets have reputations for killing far better than they should and this has made some calibers seem better killers. The .416 seems a good example of this with it's 400 grainers.
I have killed enough very large and heavy game to have based my choices on that. As Keith said, " I like to do my hunting before I shoot".
Those guides in grizzly country don't carry big guns for the exercise of it.
I posted some pics on here awhile back of a bison that hit the dirt on one shot too. Heavy big bullet 570 grainer from a .50/140. It works for me. Bison don't go down easy, in fact rifles smaller than .30/06 with 180s or so are illegal for their hunting here.
Nothing wrong with a .375 and 300s, but it's a long step up from a .243 or the like.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I'm so buying an axe. That'll be the ultimate bear-defense ticket.
Every one belittles the common black bear. But ya know, statistically, they are the most likely to actually wade in, kill you, and then use you as the main course.
Grizzlies are of course the most likely to get pissed off quickly and beat you up...............but never say never with the black bear. They will usually run, but you don't know when you are going to run into one that won't.
A neighbour of ours, back when we lived in BC, had a black bear come in the yard and kill her little boy and pack him off despite her beating on it. It was shot a short time later.
Grizzlies are of course the most likely to get pissed off quickly and beat you up...............but never say never with the black bear. They will usually run, but you don't know when you are going to run into one that won't.
A neighbour of ours, back when we lived in BC, had a black bear come in the yard and kill her little boy and pack him off despite her beating on it. It was shot a short time later.
Blacks usually only attack when they're very hungry. Few of their attacks are territorial or defensive like a griz might be.
Therefore, they tend to eat you
And lets face it - there's a lot more black bears than grizzes. In bc anyway, there's something like 13-14 thousand grizzes, and an estimated 200,000 blacks.
Therefore, they tend to eat you
And lets face it - there's a lot more black bears than grizzes. In bc anyway, there's something like 13-14 thousand grizzes, and an estimated 200,000 blacks.
They claim you are far more likely to have a real problem with a grizzly when you see one. But, there are many times more black bears so encounters with them are far more common, good or bad.
I have seen and been close to many bear, but only once did I ever feel I "needed" to shoot one and it was a grizzly.
We had an exciting little adventure about 2-3 years ago. The little dog that was running with us stirred up a grizzly in some thick bush. Of course the dog ran back to us and brought his new friend. Two of us were there with our Ruger 10/22s looking for rabbits. I felt a little undergunned. We made a lot of noise and 10/22s are not bad at this. And the bear decided against eating the little dog or it's friends. Lesson learned, might not be hunting bear, but they can be there anytime. And this was very close to town.
I have seen and been close to many bear, but only once did I ever feel I "needed" to shoot one and it was a grizzly.
We had an exciting little adventure about 2-3 years ago. The little dog that was running with us stirred up a grizzly in some thick bush. Of course the dog ran back to us and brought his new friend. Two of us were there with our Ruger 10/22s looking for rabbits. I felt a little undergunned. We made a lot of noise and 10/22s are not bad at this. And the bear decided against eating the little dog or it's friends. Lesson learned, might not be hunting bear, but they can be there anytime. And this was very close to town.
Last edited:
I admit I only read few pages of this post so if I am repeating or flogging a dead horse sorry.
What ever you carry for bear, just make dam sure you shoot it well and know where to aim.
The mosy important criteria for your bear defence/hunting gun is that you have fired it alot and are good with it. I don't mean sighted in at the range over sand bags, I mean alot of off hand shooting.
I would rather a non magnum rifle that I had shot 1000 times then a magnum I'd fired 100 times.
Oh yeah and lots of bullets is good too. A sow grizzly with 2 cubs could eat up a lot of ammo in a hurry.
If only a .303 Ackley Improved would feed 10 rounds out of the magazine we would have the Perfect bear gun. Anyone out there claim to be able to make a brit mag feed improved cartridges reliabley?
Practice lots
What ever you carry for bear, just make dam sure you shoot it well and know where to aim.
The mosy important criteria for your bear defence/hunting gun is that you have fired it alot and are good with it. I don't mean sighted in at the range over sand bags, I mean alot of off hand shooting.
I would rather a non magnum rifle that I had shot 1000 times then a magnum I'd fired 100 times.
Oh yeah and lots of bullets is good too. A sow grizzly with 2 cubs could eat up a lot of ammo in a hurry.
If only a .303 Ackley Improved would feed 10 rounds out of the magazine we would have the Perfect bear gun. Anyone out there claim to be able to make a brit mag feed improved cartridges reliabley?
Practice lots
