Adams&bennett rifle barrels? good or bad or great?

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clayberg

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I'm goofing around with the idea of a 303/25 Or 303/6mm Built off a p14 action just to see what I can build so I'm wondering about these barrels

Or as I'm sure this has been done before maybe some one whould like to make a few suggestions?

My criteria is as follows

I don't want to grind off the ears or flatten the floor plate or change the dog's leg if I were going to do this I would have bought a stevens to muck with I like the look of the p14 it's unique.

I'm doing this on the cheap (I know I can buy a gun cheaper I mean cost effective for custom.)

What I have in mind is s&k scope mount

Boyd's walnut stock (unless I can get a stock closer to home)

And that leaves the barrel I talked to a gunsmith with a good rep and he said 400.00 for blank 400.00 for chamber,crown, thread this is the part I'm hoping to save on My neighbor has a lathe and the skill to machine this but I'll need a blank and thread cutter and reamers go, no go's etc.

Any Idea about sourcing these things?

Another thought was to buy a heavy target barrel and cut off the threads and start over? is this feasible with a no contour barrel you should have enough shank or what?


Thanks
 
also I don't have my heart set on 303 based wildcat either so basically any hunting legal lower recoil varmint friendly cal suggestions would be appreciated
 
Re barrel on P-14

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The original barrels on P-14 and 1917 Enfields are 1.325 inches in diameter, with a thread diameter of 1.125 inches. You will need a barrel blank that is larger than most of the common ones available.

The P-14 was designed for the .303 cartridge, and has a magazine that is slanted to feed this cartridge. It also has a larger bolt face than the 30-06 head size. While this is good for Magnum cartridges, if you are thinking of some of the common varmint cartridges, they are based on the 30-06 head size. eg: 22-250, 6mm Rem., .243 etc. If you were thinking of these or similar calibres, then the M-1917 Enfield action would be better, because the bolt face is the proper size, and the magazine is designed for rimless cartridges.

There were a lot of barrel makers in the past that offered short chambered but threaded barrels for various actions. You put the barrel on your action, then cut the last 20 thousands of an inch or so with a finish reamer, usually by hand. This way, you got proper headspace. Maybe some of them still do....try Gun Parts (Numrich).

A lot of development on cartridges based on the .303 was done in Australia. You might google some of the various cartridges, and see what you come up with. There are also a lot of Aussies on the Lee-Enfield forums that you might get some information from.

Also, try Elwood Epps in Orillia, Ontario. They used to make rifles using the .303 case as a basic one, and using smaller calibre barrels.

I once had a .22 Crandall R2 based on a P-14 action. Basically, this was a .303 case, shortened, but about the same dimensions as a 22-250. Making cases was a bit of a pain, but the thing did shoot.

Just for the heck of it, I did make one up in 25 calibre. It had a rusted out barrel, and I bought a large diameter used barrel at a gun show. I used a 25-06 reamer, but short chambered the barrel because the .303 runs about .456 diameter at the rear end of the chamber. It worked out quite well, and could be loaded with standard 25-06 dies that had been shortened.
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Adams and Bennet barrels are great for the price range. If you're looking for a tack driver though, talk to mysticplayer.

The two A&B barrels I've used were good for MOA shooting though as long as the action has been trued and the barrel trued to the action.

bearhunter
 
Mystic can I get the over sized barrell that buff is talking about if so how much? This is the first I've heard of that particular issue

Also I'm intersted in Any info about 6mm 06 as a possible chambering good bad?

Someone suggested to me basing a 6mm cartridge on 7mm rem mag as the action would not require any modifactions Anyone have ballistics on this cartridge?

Thanks Clay
 
I have built a number of rifles on the Enfield P action and really like them. If you are using the P14, you should consider magnum bolt head cases. Not easy to mod them to work with the 308/'06 bolt head. A P17 is ideal for this case head size.

If you like the 6mm, consider the 6WSSM. That seems like a real hot performer and would be more effecient compared to a 6.-06. Single shot would be easiest but you may be able to modify the mag box and follower to get it to feed.

The 6-06 was pretty popular and gives great performance at moderate pressures. There is little issue pushing 105gr bullets over 3200fps in 26" barrels. It is still overbore but if you want max speed, will work. Not going to fit that action well at all.

A 6mm RSAUM would also be 'ok' but overbore unless you plan on using only the heaviest 105 to 115gr bullets. Then, that would be plenty yummy.

A 6 WSM is way too much of a good thing. So a 6 -7RM is simply goofy big and bore life is best described as brief. Also, most VLD bullets don't like going over 3400fps so having this much case capacity may not get utilized.

There is a whole family of wildcats based off the 303Brit case. Brass life is also not bad when improved. Case volume would be a bit larger then a 308 so allow for excellent performance at moderate pressures. However, you will have to dig around for reamers.

NO issue offering you oversized barrels but that is not necessary. The Stand. 1 1/4" root diameter works just fine. The action walls are seriously thick.

I can offer you all that is on the Shilen website. PM me for pricing or look in my sig line link. You can still make the Oct order if you confirm today. Otherwise, will have another in Nov.

Triggers should also be available soon.

Jerry
 
At those velocities and the twist rate needed to stabilize, the bullets distort or tear themselves apart.

There is only so much material strength in that jacket. Why there are no bullets that are accurate when a twist faster then 7 is speced. Comes a point of diminishing returns.

Some have tried using a slower twist and going fast. Some times it works, other times/temps/humidity, they fail. Have yet to hear of a combo to balance these items consistently.

Short stubbier bullets can go well over 4000fps as many varmint hunters have shown. But the LR ballistics is so so when compared to long high BC spears going at moderate velocities.

Why the sweet spot for velocity is right around 3000fps. Enough speed to buck the wind but no so high that you start going poof.

Jerry
 
dan belisle said:
I shoot a 240 Gibbs, which is a 6mm-06 Improved. Very fast, very accurate. I can't see doing one on a P14 though. M17 would be ok. The 6mm Mack IV (7mm Rem brass necked down to 6mm and improved) is a barn burner, easily pushes 85 gr bullets over 4000 fps. - dan
Click to expand...

NOt On a p14? due to the bolt face?

That's why I was thinking 6mm Mack IV

basing the cartridge on a belted magnum I don't have to muck with the action to much
 
Adams and Bennett barrels are decent barrels for the prices they sell for. The steel quality is uniform throughout when you are cutting chamber or threading. I have had some pretty decent shooting rifles with these. Trick is to find them as i think they dropped them except for Ruger 10/22s unless that was just Battenfeld.
 
what about the 6.5 cal? if you want to go a lil bigger, ive built 2 now in 6.5 x 303. seems to work pritty well. the first one was on a #4 action, and it is quiet acurate. the next one is on a P14, its not done yet, and i havent shot it yet.
i have a reamer for this one
 
Beater said:
what about the 6.5 cal? if you want to go a lil bigger, ive built 2 now in 6.5 x 303. seems to work pritty well. the first one was on a #4 action, and it is quiet acurate. the next one is on a P14, its not done yet, and i havent shot it yet.
i have a reamer for this one
Click to expand...

What kinda perfomance Out of that setup at this point I'm pretty open and like I orignally said half the fun in this is scrounging up stuff

Would you consider letting me use your reamer you must have a decent smith local to you and I could just ship the gun to him maybe?????????

Thanks CLAY
 
clayberg, 6.5x303B sounds interesting, should give similar performance as the 6.5x55 but allows the same performance in No1, No3 and No4 rifles, which can be picked up cheap in bubba configuration. Not bad at all.

bearhunter
 
clayberg said:
NOt On a p14? due to the bolt face?

That's why I was thinking 6mm Mack IV

basing the cartridge on a belted magnum I don't have to muck with the action to much
Click to expand...

Yes, because of the bolt face. However, if you want it to feed, you will be "mucking with the action". Mach IV is hard on barrels, you can't shoot it a lot or too long. - dan
 
had someone else mention 6.5X303 as a very good calibre so this could be the way to go maybe. I don't know if I like the Idea of something that will be shot out in 3000-4000 rounds. I like to shoot lots and wouldn't want to say goodbye so soon Especially if it's hand crafted. it would be like losing on of my kids..........
 
Then you may want to rethink this project.

The 6mm-7RM would survive maybe 800rds if run to its fullest potential.

The 6.5-303 might see 2000rds if you aren't looking for teen tiny groups.

The only way to get good barrel life for this case volume is to INCREASE the bore and REDUCE the pressure.

A 303 Brit at moderate pressures will last like a 308Win - 5000rds

Small bores with big case volumes perform with big numbers but for a very short period of time.

Jerry
 
There really doesn't seem to be any way out of short barrel life....

Well I definitly don't need another 30 cal so maybe 6.5 x 303 can be called splitting the difference? I suppose you can always rebarrel it. and if you think of it the average guy probably puts 40-60 rnds through his gun a year so it last him what 50 years? in this case it might last me 5. (maybe) if I get especially fond of a gun I tend to take out more often, But that's not to bad really

And then of course you have to consider the guy's who sell gun barrels right? somebody has to put their kids through college.

Oh mystic I had a gander at your comp rifles and that is good ol ingenuity at it's finest truley an interesting and apperently accurate rifle!!
 
Actually, this is a much accepted, but not the true case when it comes to barrel life.

You can actually get exceptionally long barrel life with big cases by just throttling things back a bit. That is what the Howell line of cartridges accomplishes quite easily.

Temperature plays the biggest role in barrel erosion, not velocity. The misunderstanding comes because high velocity is usually the result of increased pressure, and consequently high temperature.

Let me give you a simple analogy. Cut down two trees in the forest that are the same size. Cut one up and burn it. It decomposes quickly, produces a lot of energy in a short time, hence the temperature rises and you enjoy a nice bonfire. :)

Now, cut the other tree up into the same size pieces and just leave it lay in the forest. It may take ten or twenty years to decompose, but while it rots, it produces the same amount of energy, but no noticeable heat.

Another example is the heat you feel in a compost bin. It is noticeable alright, but not nearly what you would feel if the stuff was burning.

To get back to the barrels, if you chamber for a cartridge that has a capacity of the 7mm magnum, but load it to 40,000 psi you will get quite a bit of velocity at relatively low temperature. Load it to 60,000 psi and you get much, much, more velocity, but also very high temperature.

I know of a 243 that was loaded accurately for more than 9000 rounds by Bevan King, the barrel maker. He then gave the rifle to his brother-in-law who put around another 4000 rounds through the rifle. He then re-barreled it.........because it wouldn't shoot better than an inch and a half. :D Total of 13,000 rounds, but it wasn't loaded for the maximum velocity. It was loaded for accuracy.

If you want to chamber your P14 to a magnum case to fit the bolt face and not burn the barrel out in short order, you can do so in any bore size you want. Just don't load it to really high pressure (temperature). :cool:

In fact, the way to increase barrel life in any rifle is to just throttle it back a bit.

Ask Jerry to post a couple of pictures of his rifles he did up on P14 and P17 actions with his homemade stocks that have the barrels totally free, not just free floated. They shoot great and they are not hard to look at either. Post a couple for him, Jerry!

Ted
 
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