adams lake barrels

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Cheeto

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As the Op, here is a wrap up of what has gone on since fall 2011. About 6 of us contacted the RCMP in Chase,BC. After their investigation of Adams Lake Barrels, they were going to recommend to the BC Crown that charges be laid against Adams Lake Barrels. The BC Crown has declined to pursue this matter. I guess there is no big payoff in fines for the BC Crown. My local detachment of the RCMP (Brandon, MB)were totally useles in this matter. Wouldn't talk to me ,unless I made an appointment.
Adams Lake Barrels has since disconnected all his phones. Kreiger barrels actually made my barrel,but never sent it on,account non payment by Adams Lake Barrels. Even though I payed up front, I was going to pay again to get it. It is an odd contour barrel that I never thought they could resell. Peter Dobson was kind enough to apply and get the proper state dept. permits to import it for me. Although they knew I was the origional purchaserof this barrel, they sold it to somebody else in Feb of 2012. They were to hold it till the paperwork came through. I talked to Krieger barrels a couple of weeks ago,and they have totally dropped Adams Lake Barrels. They stated there has been about 30 Canadians, who have called wondering where their barrel is. This is substancially more than the 6 who contacted the RCMP.
The lesson learned here is don't pay all of the money up front. If a business needs all of the purchase price up front, they probably aren't solvent enough.
 
If you were to get statements from 20 individuals, then I would help by talking to the crown prosecutor very firmly (retired lawyer) to assist but i am tired of wasting my time by answering PM's and e-mails and phone calls when I ask to have copies of what they sent, in detail and the lazy bums do not follow through, they deserve to lose their money,

we have a great chance to get justice but if they sit back and complain the alledged criminals get away,

we have the e-mails from barrel maker, and proof he took money, but if you do not follow through we are hooped, I put my reputation to help and some have contacted me and complained I should stay out of it, and I will run into them at shooting competitions so I will get flack but at least WE tried,

this will not be the only misstep in 2012

take care,

Jefferson
 
Did the RCMP or Crown give a rational as to why they wouldn't pursue the charge?

Has anyone considered a civil suit?

The problem with approaching this as a criminal matter is that you need to prove that Adams Lake Barrels had the intention of taking your money without ever getting you the product you were expecting. If the Crown doesn't think this can be done they likely won't go through the trouble of trying to go to trial. The hitch is when you give someone your money when they promise you something in return, similar to advancing someone credit ... this is essentially a civil agreement and thus can be dealt with in civil court.
 
The standard Crown in BC must meet is 'substantial likelyhood on conviction and in the public interest'. While the second leg of the test is clear enough the former is qyite the hurdle (and, fwiw, its higher than most other provinces). My advice is to pursue via small claims court.
 
As explained by the Chase Det of the RCM. If he had collected money and never delivered a barrel it would be an open and shut case of fraud. As he deliverd a bunch of barrels (not including mine) there is no clear case of intent to commit fraud.
 
Cheeto

I am not taking sides here at all. Clearly you got screwed which really does surprise many of us as Ian seemed like a stand up guy, I have known him for several years. None the less. The crown won't typically do much as it is easier to deem it a civil matter, which means small claims court, however the problem is still going to be getting the proverbial blood from a stone.

As far as asking for a deposit on special order items, this has EVERYTHING to do with a businesses cash flow. Too many times to count we have ordered in the weird and wonderful things for folks and then got stuck with it, which DOES effect cashflow. Like many specialty shops we have had to make prepayment a requirement on anything not normally stocked. I do not believe this is abnormal in business today, so think your statement about paying for a special order upfront may be reactive to being burned, which I understand, but you also need to see the other side.
 
I don't know what all went down with Ian and some his clients but he always used me and anyone I sent to him very good and always came through with the goods.. this is apparently not the case with every one.. to bad things went south for him
 
I actually have Ian's 6xc he built for him self. Most accurate rifle I own.

He was a good guy so sorry to hear about everyone that got screwed. You may not care for the guy but your fighting a dead cause. You can not bleed out $$ that is not there. You will spend more than your owed fighting. sorry but you know its the truth.

The gunsmith busness is not a rich man's trade. Hats off to mystic, Alberta tactical, northshore and the rest who keep us going.
 
If you paid by credit card I believe you can get your money back as services not rendered?
Sounds like the guy went bankrupt; it always bites to be colateral damage...
Note to self; research, research, research.
 
Money up front for special order items is quite common in many businesses. Try going and ordering performance or specialty items from an Auto Parts Store as one example. Biggest problem is special orders of any type are often non returnable.
 
I am going to be hated for my comments but I do not give a rats A++. He took orders, received pre-payments, and did not deliver. What ever his issues with his personal life are DO NOT MATTER. He STOLE. If this were the wild west days he would be hunted down and shot. That is reality. End of story.

You want to get into this business you better have the cash flow and NOT rely on the general public.

He may be a stand up guy or a friend to many, but HE STOLE.
 
I have never met him, nor had any dealings with him. He obviously got into trouble in business, and couldn't make good on his commitments. That is without question.

Yes, it hurt some of us here, but I do not believe for a moment that he purposely set out to steal from anyone.

Ted
 
I agree Why not the guy went bankrupt I,m sure he didn't want this to happen but it did.

A few years ago I did some work for a company that went bankrupt and was out a few thousand in the process, I knew the owner personaly but it was beyond his control and could not pay me .
 
If you go bankrupt selling barrels out of your garage, while collecting money up front, there`s some serious incompetence going on. I`d wager that he was supplementing his lifestyle with his customers money and was an undisciplined and irresponsible business person. There are more memebers that will get you what you need, Hirsch Precision, without up-front payment or risk. Patronize and support businesses like this and stay away from these amateurs. Robertson Composites went bankrupt, but first refunded un-filled orders.
 
I fully agree with masonicshooter. I bought a couple barrels from Ian a couple years ago and he was very profesional to deal with. I fully understand how business works, there is always ups and downs. I never met him personally or seen his operation, but when I would look on his website it didn't seem that he ever had a bunch of IN stock barrels to sell. I understand they are a hard item to stock as everyone wants something differant. He would have had normal operating costs that come with a business but when you are taking 100% full payment for a item how do you have a bunch of overhead??? He had to be using his customers money to fund something else. Bottom line is he DID steel from some people. The guys that he ripped off may never see there money back, but I hope this incident can some how attach itself to Ian's name for the rest of his life so he can't screw anybody again.
 
Guess I was lucky to have "smelled a rat" several years ago and avoided direct purchases from Adams Lake. In my situation, I had comunicated with Ian through my personal e-mail account regarding his asking price for a barrel...and after getting a criptic reply, I posted a quiry on this site to determine if there were any other Krieger Dealers. I was astonished when Ian was the first responder to my post...deriding me for asking (because he was "a sponsor")...and then posting personal information to identify me to to others. I wrote to him to advise him that I felt I could not trust him with any personal information, and declined to buy directly from him...and, I reported his indiscretion to Site Admin. Site admin pulled the offensive post, and advised they had "sanctioned" Ian (I saw no posts from him for a few months, so I am guessing he got a temp ban.) My experience kept me from dealing with Adams lake....guess my spidey senses were right.
 
cycbb486 said:
I am going to be hated for my comments but I do not give a rats A++. He took orders, received pre-payments, and did not deliver. What ever his issues with his personal life are DO NOT MATTER. He STOLE. If this were the wild west days he would be hunted down and shot. That is reality. End of story.

You want to get into this business you better have the cash flow and NOT rely on the general public.

He may be a stand up guy or a friend to many, but HE STOLE.
Click to expand...

Not trying do defend the guy- I'm not. Morally I can see where you're coming from and can identify with it, but;
Did he take payment for product after he had claimed bankruptcy?
Perhaps a bigger question; Has he filed for bankruptcy?
Did he take payment after he had been cut loose from his suppliers?
If so then you may have a case for fraud/stealing.
If he still had an agreement in place with suppliers and/or had not started bankruptcy proceedings then he techically never stole.
Sounds like a fairly typical business failure; A guy tries to make a living out of a hobby and has no clue on how and what it takes to make a business successfull. On thing for sure, he probably has destroyed his personal life as well as his professional (or lack of) life.
 
I love all of the assumptions in this thread and all of the others regarding Ian, I never had dealings with him nor do I know him but I do know this.....big suppliers do not neccessarily give credit to the small guys, meaning that unless you pay for an item they will not fill your order. Perhaps either Jerry or Shaun can confirm or deny this as I also don't know what kind of arrangements Krieger has with their distributors. Iam started his venture buy taking on and tackling the import/export paperwork that most of us don't understand, he was good enough to step up to the plate to help out the little guy. But on the flip side of the coin how many people changed their minds or sourced a differrent barrel while waiting the lengthy wait to recieve the mechandise they originally ordered? With that said how many items did he get burnt holding onto without a buyer and thus having to pay for out of his pocket to save face with his distributors? How long can anyone carry on a business like that before they ask for a payment up front, I mean if your absolutely serious about the purchase your going to pay right? And if you paid up front your more likely to wait it out for your items to arrive before you try and source something from somewhere else right??

All in all in the end he screwed up, even I won't dismiss that but it makes me wonder how many CGN users screwed up in Ians first years of business and forced him to charge prior to ordering prior to ordering in yet another barrel that he was going to get stuck with and have to sell at a loss just to recover his opperating costs, and for those of you that screwed him in the beginning you to should be holding your heads in shame as you kind of set the bar for customers that came in after you that were forced to pay up front.

For those of you that don't think paying up front is fair for a regularly unstocked item...suck it up or go without, most of the little guys with a banner up top that cater to us in one way or another have real jobs to pay the bills and do a little retail on the side to try and hush some of the whining on the CGN forums about people not being able to get what they want because the big box stores don't have it or are sold out or there is a shortage due to the americans being off at war.

rant off
 
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