Adcor Admiration - Range Report in First Post.

Doubletap

Doubletap

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I know there are some out there - as Saskatoon Gunworks brought some in last February - and more recently, the 16'' Elite uppers.

But I'm not hearing much in the wind about them.

I have one of the Elite uppers on hot standby - but as I sold off my last restricted some years ago, I let my range membership lapse - now I'm waiting for the New Year to renew (as otherwise I'm paying for 6 months of last year, as well).

So help a brother out, while I wait - how are you enjoying your rifle or upper?

Apparently there are 9 separate patents on this rifle (ambi fwd charging handle, port dust wiper, anti-tilt piston system - amongst them) - how are they working out for you - on your individual rifle?

How did you finish off your upper - lowers and parts, additions, optics and mounts?

How is it shooting for you?

If you're feeling some admiration for your Adcor Defense Bear Elite (but also if you're not!) - post it in here so I can live vicariously until my LTATT goes through!
And photos earn double kudos - ha ha!

And a big thank you to Darren At Sask Gunworks for doing the legwork (and paperwork!) required to bring these up here.
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Finally got a day out on the range, to try out the new toy.

Specs - Adcor Bear Elite 16'' Upper
ATRS Gen 3
Troy Ambi Mag Release
BADASS 45 Deg. Ambi Safety
Noveske QD Receiver Plate
Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x
Dueck Defense Offset Irons (knock offs)

I put 350 rds of American Eagle 55gr downrange - no FTF or FTE - in fact no stoppages of any sort. This is my first rifle chambered for .233 - and I have to admit, I was surprised by the lack of recoil.

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I guess I cut my teeth on full bores three decades ago (7.62, .303, 8mm, 3006 etc) - and the first time I squeezed the trigger, I found myself pushing the barrel down to compensate for rise - which was completely unnecessary!

Once I settled into it (not compensating for recoil or barrel rise) - offhand doubletaps out to 100m was a breeze.
Truly - its a very comfortable rifle to shoot.

I tried out a variety of optics and sights - Troy BUIS, Bushnell Zoom Dot, offset BUIS and a Hi-Lux CMR 1-4x.

The red dot was probably the quickest for rapid acquisition - but the CMR wasn't far behind, and the reticule made for quick target centering. Its glass is clear and bright - and the green illuminated reticule was helpful against dark backgrounds.

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I picked up a set of knock off Dueck Defense offsets from ebay, a while ago. I figured they might self destruct after a few rounds - though they do appear pretty solidly made.
In fact, they worked very well - and held their 50m zero through the session.

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I also tried out a couple of belt mounted Kytex mag holders for the LAR magazines I was using. Pretty nice bit of kit, for those that want quick changes without chest pouches or rigs. The fit is a bit tight with the LARs - but I think with a bit of use, they'll break in quite nicely. kytexgear.com for anyone interested - Brian makes each order as he receives them, has no problem shipping to Canada, and is a heck of a nice guy to boot!

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I had fair to middlin' accuracy, on this day - but that had far more to do with me, than anything else. It was my first day behind a trigger of any sort, in longer than I care to admit - ha ha!

Even so - I managed 100m - 2'' - 5 shot groups with almost boring regularity. I have no doubt that a little more trigger time will see those groups tighten up to an MOA or less.
I was making hits on pop cans at 200m at an average of 3-4 hits of 5 with the CMR dialed up to 4x.

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Overall - I was very impressed. Reasonably light weight, low recoiling, accurate and quick follow-ups make this is a finely made tool of the highest quality, to be sure.
Oh - and at the end of the day the BCG and components were still pristine.

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Shhh. Just another Gas piston system. A solution to a problem that didn't need fixing. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
 
Doubletap said:
Good thread - long on information - but short on build pics and range reports - ha ha!

Glad yours is coming along - what are your plans, if you have a moment?
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Still debating which lower I'll be going with, but I've narrowed it down to (in no special order):

Hera HLS
Mega Arms
ATRS

What I have sitting on the bench for it:

- Geissele SD-E
- MagPul CTR stock
- KNS anti rotation pins
- Noveske-MapPul safety lever
- Enidine hydraulic buffer & spring

To come in:
- Norgon ambi mag release
- MagPul BAD bolt lever
- PWS Hk416 buffer tube

Whichever lower parts kit I'll get my hands on later on as I'll only need misc springs and pins at that time.

Plan on using this new lower with multiple uppers..and a new one caught my eye this week... among them there's a KAC in the EE that did just that.
 
BenL said:
Hera HLS
Mega Arms
ATRS

What I have sitting on the bench for it:

- Geissele SD-E
- MagPul CTR stock
- KNS anti rotation pins
- Noveske-MapPul safety lever
- Enidine hydraulic buffer & spring

To come in:
- Norgon ambi mag release
- MagPul BAD bolt lever
- PWS Hk416 buffer tube
Click to expand...

Very nice - sounds like a well thought out build.

I'm going to assume by your parts list that you are a lefty shooter, as well?

The ambi forward charging handle was certainly a drawing feature for me, as well - as a left-handed shooter - and I've been keeping an eye on the Bear development since it's initial introduction.

I cut my semi-auto rifle teeth, with the venerable C1 back in the 80s (RCD cadets) - but hell, even FN put the charging handle on the wrong side of the receiver! (That last bit was typed with tongue firmly planted in cheek!)

Epoxy7 said:
Shhh. Just another Gas piston system. A solution to a problem that didn't need fixing. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
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Nice one, E7 - you said a mouthful there!

I compulsively do quite a bit of research before making a purchase of this magnitude (a magnitude relative only to my disposable income!) - it required me to sell my Garand to get the project off the ground (and I'm going to miss that old war-horse).

However, when I looked around the inter-webs - I was surprised by how little information there was on the Adcor Bear. A few Utube reviews, a few SHOT show sales videos - but very little in the way of feedback from end-users.

The few reviews-by-purchasers I did read invariably degenerated into one post after another in the vein of yours (I should say that I understand you were typing that with your tongue firmly planted in your cheek, as well!).

Maybe that had much to do with the scarcity of end-user reviews from south of the line - who wants to post reviews that consistently fall into the DI VS. GP debate?
Anyway - perhaps due to that - this purchase was a bit of a "leap of faith" for me.
 
DoubleTap - I'm actually a righty, but I can see why you would say so. Some of the ambi-enhancement parts aren't absolutely required, but if you're going to urban-commando it (credit to Blaxsun for this new term ;) ), may as well go for all the marbles right.

I'll put another lower together in the not so distant future, but for now I prefer to have one high-end lower built with high quality parts and have a few good quality uppers to shoot with.
 
Exclusive Port Dust Wiper with Cover
• Prevents entry of dust, sand or debris: The spring-loaded dust shield mounted on the bolt carrier allows the bolt carrier’s return to ready position; the port dust wiper moves into the ejection port opening flush with the inside geometry of the upper receiver.
• Withstands temperature extremes because of the highly durable, self-lubricating polymer shield.
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Having seen it in-person, it's a very neat system. Although not noted, the dust wiper is apparently comprised of ceramics as well. What is really nice about it is that it will prevent a lot of stuff from being ingested when the ejection port cover is open - since this seamlessly seals it off.
 
Doubletap said:
The ambi forward charging handle was certainly a drawing feature for me, as well - as a left-handed shooter - and I've been keeping an eye on the Bear development since it's initial introduction.

I cut my semi-auto rifle teeth, with the venerable C1 back in the 80s (RCD cadets) - but hell, even FN put the charging handle on the wrong side of the receiver! (That last bit was typed with tongue firmly planted in cheek!)


Nice one, E7 - you said a mouthful there!

I compulsively do quite a bit of research before making a purchase of this magnitude (a magnitude relative only to my disposable income!) - it required me to sell my Garand to get the project off the ground (and I'm going to miss that old war-horse).

However, when I looked around the inter-webs - I was surprised by how little information there was on the Adcor Bear. A few Utube reviews, a few SHOT show sales videos - but very little in the way of feedback from end-users.

The few reviews-by-purchasers I did read invariably degenerated into one post after another in the vein of yours (I should say that I understand you were typing that with your tongue firmly planted in your cheek, as well!).

Maybe that had much to do with the scarcity of end-user reviews from south of the line - who wants to post reviews that consistently fall into the DI VS. GP debate?
Anyway - perhaps due to that - this purchase was a bit of a "leap of faith" for me.
Click to expand...

Yes definately joking around on that one. I was also surprised at the lack of info. Somehow Saskgunworks was the only one to quietly take notice at shot show. No CGN reviews at all after shot show.

The side charger does pay it's respects to the FN FAL charger. It works great. The entire upper is cleaverly designed. They did to the AR what Swiss Arms did to the AK with the PE90.

I realize it's a long shot and politics etc always play a part but Id like to see the ADCOR Bear win the m4 replacement contract. I think it's ingenious what they have done. The big criticism over past winners and not adapting has been it doesn't offer enough over the current M4 to justify it. I think the ADCOR does offer a number of significant advantages from the hybrid system which keeps DI accuracy and piston reliability while also being very well balanced/light. The dust cover, the charging handle, adjustable gas system and monolithic rail qualities in a two piece system that's easy to change. Also toolless take down.

They improved the ergos even further, kept accuracy without having to go to a heavier barrel or SS, and improved reliability with a piston. The dust cover/crud scraper with the piston keeps the bolt clean. The piston isn't mounted to the barrel and it doesn't strike the bolt like most piston designs. Carrier tilt and loss of accuracy are no longer an issue. Essentially the DI happens further up and away from the bolt.

In terms of adopting this rifle it's mostly just software changes to the current AR/M4. Same machines, predominantly the same parts and you can use the current lowers etc already in place. It's essentially just an upgrade to the current M4 while actually being a new rifle that offers the advantages of the DI AR with those of the newest 21st century firearms. I could see the ADCOR design carrying the AR into the 21st century. I figured the AR was at the end of the line except for specialized use. Now I can see it carrying on well inti the future.

As for the charging handle rub.. I made the mistake of using the side charger to lock the bolt back then used the bolt release. What I should have done and do now is push the handle forward after so it doesn't get slammed forward. I do this with my tavor and it's just a good idea. You would never leave the rear AR handle back then hit the bolt release. So I wonder if this is what caused the excess wear in that M4 review online.

While being super critical the one pin to remove the gas piston assembly from the hand guard could be considered a flaw. It's not captured and could be easy to lose. That being said I think it's actually the same as one of the pins in the lower parts kits. So cheap and easy to get extras.

Another criticism. The regular dust cover looks thin and not as cool or rugged as the original. But it seems to work fine. I just prefer the asthetics of the regular cover over the ADCOR one. Over all this upper is very nice on the looks department. I thank the designers for taking the time to make the esthetics match the firearms function. Good job.

The ADCOR does have one quick release point at the 6 o'clock position at the front of the rail. Not critical but it could use a couple more. That being said the one it does have is great. I have PWS enhanced buffers which add two QR points along with my stock adding another. So for most the one QR at the front with one on the stock should work great. Still have to mention it though as the LMT mrp for instance has 5 as do some of the other brands. The KAC lower along with POF offer QR points built into their lowers.
 
BenL said:
Still debating which lower I'll be going with, but I've narrowed it down to (in no special order):

Hera HLS
Mega Arms
ATRS

What I have sitting on the bench for it:

- Geissele SD-E
- MagPul CTR stock
- KNS anti rotation pins
- Noveske-MapPul safety lever
- Enidine hydraulic buffer & spring

To come in:
- Norgon ambi mag release
- MagPul BAD bolt lever
- PWS Hk416 buffer tube

Whichever lower parts kit I'll get my hands on later on as I'll only need misc springs and pins at that time.

Plan on using this new lower with multiple uppers..and a new one caught my eye this week... among them there's a KAC in the EE that did just that.
Click to expand...

Of the lowers you listed the Hera is the only true full ambi design. The ATR and Mega offer all the ambi function but don't have the mag release guard built in. KAC, Hera, POF and a couple more in the states are 100 percent designed for ambi with protected mag release wells.

You should also price them out. The Hera isn't well known here for their ambi lowers. Considering I have the first two in Canada it isn't surprising they aren't well known.

For my AR Im taking chances in two relative unknowns. Will it make the ultimate AR? Just waiting for a couple more parts to find out.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Yes definately joking around on that one.
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I knew, as soon as I read your post, that you had no doubt been reading the same threads "over there" that I had!

I do wonder if the Bear will be a contender in the M4 replacement trials. I'm pretty skeptical, as a rule - and it's very difficult for me to imagine a scenario in which Colt will allow their grip on the general issue long arm to be loosened.

The kind of pull that company has with Defense, surely will not allow it to happen.

The fact that Adcor was contracted to manufacture upper receivers for Colt (at a far quicker rate than Colt production could manage) might play into it, though - perhaps through collaboration rather than replacement.

Even were they not to be handed the contract outright - having those patents may well be worth a pretty penny, should Colt wish to purchase one or two of them for implementation on the M4 platform.

Regardless - the trials will no doubt be interesting.

Epoxy7 said:
The ADCOR does have one quick release point at the 6 o'clock position at the front of the rail. Not critical but it could use a couple more. That being said the one it does have is great. I have PWS enhanced buffers which add two QR points along with my stock adding another. So for most the one QR at the front with one on the stock should work great. Still have to mention it though as the LMT mrp for instance has 5 as do some of the other brands. The KAC lower along with POF offer QR points built into their lowers.
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Good to know - might I ask if the QD point is on the left or right side of the guard (or both sides?). I'm hoping both - as it would be a shame if such an ambi-friendly platform only had a QD sling point on the left side - ha ha!
 
Epoxy7 said:
Of the lowers you listed the Hera is the only true full ambi design. The ATR and Mega offer all the ambi function but don't have the mag release guard built in. KAC, Hera, POF and a couple more in the states are 100 percent designed for ambi with protected mag release wells.

You should also price them out. The Hera isn't well known here for their ambi lowers. Considering I have the first two in Canada it isn't surprising they aren't well known.

For my AR Im taking chances in two relative unknowns. Will it make the ultimate AR? Just waiting for a couple more parts to find out.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for Cody at Milarm for a final pricing and eta for an Hera HLS; been a week or so, so I will follow up with him to see if he has the info or not.
 
Re Adcor's chance in the M4 replacement bid.

Could it possibly be a reason why Adcor's shorter barreled uppers were not allowed for export anymore, in preparation for a possible stock shortage, should they be successful in their bid?

[/off comes the tinfoil hat]
 
BenL said:
Re Adcor's chance in the M4 replacement bid.

Could it possibly be a reason why Adcor's shorter barreled uppers were not allowed for export anymore, in preparation for a possible stock shortage, should they be successful in their bid?

[/off comes the tinfoil hat]
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Tinfoil hat perhaps not necessary!

I wondered after seeing the photo of the N. Guardsman with a 10.5'' (?) Bear in Afghanistan. The photo produced quite a furor - but it was all conjecture and I never did read anything official regarding the Adcor being carried - as to whether it was authorized or not.
 
Doubletap:

The QD point is in the centre underneath the handguard and at the front. As QR sling points swivel it will work for left or right side. You lose that spot for flashlights if you use the QR point but you can buy a rail conversion point and place it wherever you want in that case. Or put the light on the side. There are compromises but they have been done in such a way it's well worth it and they have come up with inteligent options.

BenL:

The ATR one which can only be bought with LPK installed worked out to the lower if stripped was about $150 more than the Hera. Hopefully they get back to you. I have a buddy also in the same boat trying to get these lowers. Apparently I was lucky.

One other thing. Wolverine supplies is a class act. They directed me to another company for these lowers as they didn't carry them.
 
^
And I may actually order an extra one, depending on the ETA. If it's just a month or two, that's not bad. But if it's 4-5 months, or more, then it may be worth it as I would be ready to put another lower together by then.
 
Doubletap said:
Tinfoil hat perhaps not necessary!

I wondered after seeing the photo of the N. Guardsman with a 10.5'' (?) Bear in Afghanistan. The photo produced quite a furor - but it was all conjecture and I never did read anything official regarding the Adcor being carried - as to whether it was authorized or not.
Click to expand...

I suspect ITAR being the real culprit. As they lifted the 556 issue but the last ADCOR rifles which I have come with Phantom compensator rather than flash hiders.

That being said I wonder if that picture is part of the Phase 2 testing? User feedback after it passed reliability testing? I don't know enough about the testing or competition for this to be anything more than a guess. Interesting though how it was quickly noticed.

Yes politically Colt is a tough one to beat. That being said once again a smart company. They made Colt uppers and have high tech defence contracts. While being the underdog they aren't a company to be dismissed. They have the equipment, engineers, former big firearm company reps, high tech military contracts and the financial backing. This isn't a small firearms only company like Robinson Arms it's a major company looking for inroads into a bigger piece of the pie.

I still think they have a ton of hurdles with having the best product possibly being the least of the difficulties ahead. So I too am cautious but very interested in the results.
 
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