I've been working on some reduced loads for my 30-06 with cast gc bullets. I will be trying several powders, but, loads using 2400 keep poping up. I used 2400 in my 44mag, 38/55 and 405win with cornmeal to fill out the case. I have now read several articals which advise not to use fillers, especially with an easy to ignite powder like 2400, because of increased preasure. Anybody care to wade in?
adding filler to reduced loads...
- Thread starter Curly1
- Start date
back40sniper
CGN Regular
- Location
- South east Sask.
I ran into the whole filler/no filler debate when reloading cast for my 450/400. I decided that the best thing was to use a powder that doesn't need filler, Trail Boss was designed for cowboy action shooting but works almost everywhere. Double check with powder company but, measure a case to where the bottom of the bullet sits, fill to that level with TB, that is max load. For a starting load reduce by 30 %. You might not get quite the speed you will with some of the other "cast" powders, like 5744, but TB works very well. So far I use it in 450/400, 416 Rigby and 375 H&H.
Others seem to get improved results with fillers, but I've tried them in an assortment of rifles over the last 50 yrs or so, and they've always given worse accuracy than unfilled loads. 2400 does fine for me with no filler in 30 - 06 and all my other rifles.
grouch
grouch
Well grouch, I've been piddling around with such things for about the same length of time.
I've tried various fillers, but mostly used no filler and I can not come to a conclusion of which is best, filler or no filler. And I have gone down to light loads, with a capital L, like maybe 6 grains of fast powder in a 30-06. These lightest of loads have worked excellently without any filler.
I have tried for the highest velocity I could get with a gc bullet in the 30-06, and still maintain suitable accuracy. I used at least six differet powders, in amounts from a quater of a case full, to slow powders of three quarters of a case. No filler in any of them.
Rocket Surgery
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm going to agree with no filler. I use tightgroup and 2400 to make 30-30 and .303b light loads
16.7g 2400 with 210g GC RN cast made for an accurate round in my enfields.
7g titegroup with 175g FP GC bullet was alright in my 30-30, but not quiet enough.
No filler in either. The next one I'm going to play with is a 308 bolt gun. I want to make subsonic grouse loads.
16.7g 2400 with 210g GC RN cast made for an accurate round in my enfields.
7g titegroup with 175g FP GC bullet was alright in my 30-30, but not quiet enough.
No filler in either. The next one I'm going to play with is a 308 bolt gun. I want to make subsonic grouse loads.
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
I use the toilet paper as a "filler" to keep the powder against the primer in my subsonic 35Rem 'grouse smasher". I found out that by doing so my loads are more accurate.
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Whether fillers work for you or not, cream of wheat, corn meal etc. are not a suitable filler to use in a bottleneck case. Those materials can clump over time (cause a case blockage) if contaminated by bullet lube or moisture and can cause rapid pressure rises as a result.
I have never needed a filler with 2400 powder. I occasionally use PSB ( from Precision reloading) as a filler over powders such as Re19 or the 4831's when loading to the maximum that a given cast bullet may withstand. Usually about 4 grains of PSB will provide a lightly compressed load and I have found improvements in accuracy in some cartridges but not all. Cast bullets that extend below the case neck are most likely to benefit but there is no guarantee that will be the result.
I have never needed a filler with 2400 powder. I occasionally use PSB ( from Precision reloading) as a filler over powders such as Re19 or the 4831's when loading to the maximum that a given cast bullet may withstand. Usually about 4 grains of PSB will provide a lightly compressed load and I have found improvements in accuracy in some cartridges but not all. Cast bullets that extend below the case neck are most likely to benefit but there is no guarantee that will be the result.
I've worked up what I think is a good accurate load using 2400 for my 03A3. Bullet is 311291 sized .311 WW plus 2% tin and water quenched. Started at 16.0 grs and worked up. Light loads smoked cases and had the odd hang fire. Settled on 21.0 grs. Clean cases, good accuracy and enough recoil to remind the shooter this was/is a real battle rifle. I shoot cast out of a dozen other military rifles with several other powders and don't use fillers in any of them. I have tried them in the past and never felt totally comfortable with them.
Always check a couple manuals before trying a load you see on the internet! Good luck with the 06. I'm sure you will come up something that works well.
Always check a couple manuals before trying a load you see on the internet! Good luck with the 06. I'm sure you will come up something that works well.
Actually, that makes all kinds of sense.
Looking at my first reloading manual (Speer #9!), it discusses this and recommends either kapok or Dacron, with the latter preferred. Both are listed as pillow fills.
Never tried it, personally, but it does seem to deal with the residue issue.
I would agree completely with stocker WRT the bad-idea part of using something like corn meal. People use that sort of stuff for fire-forming, to build up pressure.
I've used Dacron for years in smokeless 45-100 loads and also tried Puff Lon (haven't seen it for sale for a while). Dacron is easy to find and a pound of it will last a very long time. Accuracy in the Sharps I use has been excellent and can't say I've ever noticed any residue from it. Weight is too small to measure so adds nothing to recoil. Don't know that you could say the same for corn meal if you chose to use it.
A couple of years ago some one on this site suggested using that foam insulation beading cut into appropriate length pieces, rolled up tight and pushed in on top of the charge. Then seat the bullet down tight on the foam. I used it in loads for my 44-40 and found that it worked well. Loads with it seemed more accurate, no residue from the foam showed up so I called it a success.
I wonder if the uncertainty about whether filler is helpful or not, is related to whether or not we're talking rifle or pistol, and also depends on the primers' ability to fully ignite the powder that may not be right up against the flash-hole. One would have to do a whole slew of tests to see why.
I also believe that the filler substance uses up some of the energy as it is melted and/or combusted. A completely inert filler that doesn't extract much heat (energy) would then be ideal. That would explain why the really airy ones like Dacron work, because they're mostly air. Denser fillers will degrade performance.
I once tried tumbling some very dirty .45ACP cases in kitty litter - unused by kitty, or at least I thought it was unused! Although most of the cases came out cleaned, I noticed a couple of cases had what looked like sawdust caked inside, about 1 mm thick, on the bottom around the flash-hole. I loaded them anyway with the rest of the cartridges, using the lowest (starting) powder weight.
When I shot the suspect rounds, there was a very unusual "POP!", as if there was no powder at all, the bullets departed downrange but did not touch my 20-yd paper target. I concluded that my "kitty litter filler" had consumed a significant part of the energy that would have otherwise contributed to more bang.
I also believe that the filler substance uses up some of the energy as it is melted and/or combusted. A completely inert filler that doesn't extract much heat (energy) would then be ideal. That would explain why the really airy ones like Dacron work, because they're mostly air. Denser fillers will degrade performance.
I once tried tumbling some very dirty .45ACP cases in kitty litter - unused by kitty, or at least I thought it was unused! Although most of the cases came out cleaned, I noticed a couple of cases had what looked like sawdust caked inside, about 1 mm thick, on the bottom around the flash-hole. I loaded them anyway with the rest of the cartridges, using the lowest (starting) powder weight.
When I shot the suspect rounds, there was a very unusual "POP!", as if there was no powder at all, the bullets departed downrange but did not touch my 20-yd paper target. I concluded that my "kitty litter filler" had consumed a significant part of the energy that would have otherwise contributed to more bang.
