Adjust sights or ?

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Zalcitabine

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Hello all,

New shooter looking for advice. I've been shooting my P226 Legion for almost a year now and my groups have downsized quite a bit. I still have a tendency to shoot to the left, which is quite usual I've been told for a right-handed shooter. I have read about shooting technique and grip posture, watched videos. I dry fire once a week and work on my flinch each time at range by mixing snaps caps with live rounds. I've never taken lessons though, just the occasional tip from an experienced shooter at my local range. I reckon I still have a very long way to go.

I was a bit frustrated at the range today seeing the same kind of results as usual, so I tried shooting the gun from a rest. Using sand bags for support, I carefully shot 6-7 times on a new paper target at 15 meters. Much to my surprise, it resulted in a 1 inch group. The group itself was of the correct height, but 4 or 5 inches to the left. I assume that my trigger discipline might still be the culprit for me shooting left, but I will admit that I am now tempted to ask a gunsmith to adjust my sights...

Please let me know your advice. I sure know that I wouldn't want to adjust the sights on this pistol only to shoot to the left with every other pistol I try.
 
It sounds like your trigger finger might be sticking too far into the trigger guard. If you're making contact with the trigger up to your first knuckle, that's probably too far. The base of your trigger finger is pushing the pistol frame to the left every time you squeeze the trigger.

Your trigger contact point should be in the middle of the pad before the first knuckle and there should be a little gap between the base of the trigger finger (where it joins the hand) and the pistol frame.

What size are your hands? Is the frame too big or the trigger too far out for your hand size making it difficult to maintain a proper hand to frame contact?
 
Everybodys sight picture is different. If you are consistently shooting to the left and are happy with your groups, it is time to adjust the sights.
What would you do wi th a rifle???
 
I’d just adjust the sights and call it a day. Seeing you’re going directly left and not low and left I doubt it’s a flinch or trigger pull.
 
Yes, adjust the sight and see what happens. I’m not sure why we see folks resistant to adjust their sights, but once you rule out the shooter the only conclusion is the sight adjustment.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies!

PSE said:
It sounds like your trigger finger might be sticking too far into the trigger guard. If you're making contact with the trigger up to your first knuckle, that's probably too far. The base of your trigger finger is pushing the pistol frame to the left every time you squeeze the trigger.

Your trigger contact point should be in the middle of the pad before the first knuckle and there should be a little gap between the base of the trigger finger (where it joins the hand) and the pistol frame.

What size are your hands? Is the frame too big or the trigger too far out for your hand size making it difficult to maintain a proper hand to frame contact?
Click to expand...

I will make sure to try this next time. My hands are normal sized. What about the shape of the trigger finger? Do you keep it rounded (knuckle outside) or flat? I’m a pianist so I have a tendancy to keep my fingers rounded...I tried with a flatter finger but it didn’t seems to make much of a difference.
 
Shoot it from the bags again and let the trigger break surprise you, use the middle of the pad of your finger and just slowly take up the slack till it breaks and fires. Don’t pull or yank on it, slow even pressure. Hold the trigger down till you realign the sights and then let the trigger out till it resets. Keep doing this, don’t be in a rush.

While shooting from a bag of you’re sights are properly aligned and your trigger press is smooth and you’re still grouping to the left maybe adjusting the sights will be the ticket, if you know someone at your range that shoots pistols well have them shoot it off bags and see if it groups the same for them. I had to adjust the front sight on a pistol from the factory, after shooting it off bags it was plain to see it was shooting nice tight groups but the poa/poi was definitely off to the one side.
 
Butcherbill said:
Shoot it from the bags again and let the trigger break surprise you, use the middle of the pad of your finger and just slowly take up the slack till it breaks and fires. Don’t pull or yank on it, slow even pressure. Hold the trigger down till you realign the sights and then let the trigger out till it resets. Keep doing this, don’t be in a rush.

While shooting from a bag of you’re sights are properly aligned and your trigger press is smooth and you’re still grouping to the left maybe adjusting the sights will be the ticket, if you know someone at your range that shoots pistols well have them shoot it off bags and see if it groups the same for them. I had to adjust the front sight on a pistol from the factory, after shooting it off bags it was plain to see it was shooting nice tight groups but the poa/poi was definitely off to the one side.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything except the trigger break SHOULD NOT surprise you. You SHOULD know when it actually breaks and the gun goes off. Negligent discharge is cause by this practice!
 
sky52 said:
I agree with everything except the trigger break SHOULD NOT surprise you. You SHOULD know when it actually breaks and the gun goes off. Negligent discharge is cause by this practice!
Click to expand...

Letting it surprise you helps to eliminate anticipating the break and pulling the shot, we’ve all seen this when randomly adding dummy rounds into the mag.

We’re talking about shooting off bags on a bench to minimize or eliminate human error, not action shooting. Don't anticipate the break, let the trigger break surprise you once you’re sights are lined up and you’re slowly pulling smoothly on it. You want to see how it shoots with as little user error as possible.
 
sky52 said:
#facepalm
Click to expand...
Sorry bud, but Butcherbill is right. You want a method where you are removing trigger jerks, etc. A reliable way is to get the shooter to SLOWLY build pressure on the trigger until it goes off.

The gun is held steady, focus on the sight picture, and pressure on the trigger is slowly increased. Nothing negligent about it. It’s a great diagnosing tool.
 
Zalcitabine said:
Thanks everyone for your replies!



I will make sure to try this next time. My hands are normal sized. What about the shape of the trigger finger? Do you keep it rounded (knuckle outside) or flat? I’m a pianist so I have a tendancy to keep my fingers rounded...I tried with a flatter finger but it didn’t seems to make much of a difference.
Click to expand...
With a curled trigger finger, you MAY be moving your finger in more of an arc, reducing that ‘sweet spot’ of trying to have 100% of the direction of force on the trigger, pulling it STRAIGHT BACK, when the trigger breaks. If you end up pulling the trigger at an angle as the trigger breaks, then you will be pulling the muzzle off target. Your grip needs to be strong and stable enough to overcome this. I suspect this is part of your issue.

Counting from the tip of my finger, I hinge my finger at the 2nd joint, and try to keep the 1st two segments of my finger straight. This reduces the arc my finger travels, to reduce any sideways influence on the trigger. Not sure how common this is, but it works for me. :)
 
If your groups are nice and tight then your grip, trigger control, site picture and follow thru are good. adjust the sights.
If your group isn't tight, then it could be a few things.
Not focusing on the front sight. <- biggest culprit
As mentioned, you are pushing the trigger to the left when you squeeze it. That could be a poor grip or the gun is to big for your hand.
Follow through. releasing the trigger before the gun comes down out of recoil.
You could be putting side pressure on the grip with your strong hand finger tips. A trick I do is to force my strong hand finger tips into the palm of my weak hand. eliminates the side pressure.
Can you post a pic of one of your targets?
 
I find that if I use the finger joint on the trigger, the groups shifts left on rapid fire.

If I use the pad of the finger tip, the group is more stable.

Pistols are sold with the sight mechanically centered. There is no intention that that setting will be POI for the shooter. hence the dovetail.
 
Ganderite said:
Pistols are sold with the sight mechanically centered. There is no intention that that setting will be POI for the shooter. hence the dovetail.
Click to expand...
If you decide to adjust it yourself, bring a dial calliper with you. It’s easier to make adjustments that way. My Shadow needed a little tweak, and the end result was moving it 0.007”, to move my group over the 1” I wanted. I tried adjusting the rear sight post in the dovetail without callipers, and it was a waste of ammo.
 
jimbo14 said:
If you decide to adjust it yourself, bring a dial calliper with you. It’s easier to make adjustments that way. My Shadow needed a little tweak, and the end result was moving it 0.007”, to move my group over the 1” I wanted. I tried adjusting the rear sight post in the dovetail without callipers, and it was a waste of ammo.
Click to expand...

I use a pencil to make a witness mark on the sight/slide so I can see how much I moved it. If you don't do something like this, you can waste ammo, as stated.
 
Press the middle of the pad of the finger (between the finger tip and first knuckle) straight back. As others have said the trigger break should come as a surprise (that's why it's called a surprise break). This prevents flinching by anticipating the recoil.

I suspect your problem has more to do with sideways pressure on the frame/trigger resulting in moving the group to the left. Try shooting with your left hand instead of the right and see if the group goes right.

Moving sights should be the last thing to do to correct the problem. If you do that first, as you gain experience down the road, you'll be moving them back where you started from. (Ask me how I know)
 
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