Adjusting M&P 9mm sights?

FightingIrish

FightingIrish

Regular
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Location
Central Alberta
Took my M&P 9mm to the range for the first time tonight. 250 rounds shot, not a single issue or failure, what a blast I had.

Pretty consistent in my opinion which doesn't mean much at this point, but I was pretty satisfied.

The issue I have is the sights are not "on". Left to right is good, but I had to keep the rear sight lower in order to hit my aim point. So, can I raise the rear sight?

From what I understand, the sight picture should be:
__________
| * | * | * |

But what I was having to do is:

___| * |___
| * |__| * |

Does this make sense? Sorry for the ####ty illustration.

Irish.
 
FightingIrish said:
Or is this just my way of learning that I'm not pulling the trigger correctly, and it's pulling the barrel down?
Click to expand...

Bingo. The M&P is very unforgiving if your pulling the trigger or flinching. I installed the apex FSST and it helped immensely. I have no problems with my glock or CZ but for some reason the stock M&P trigger gave me huge problems.
 
redddogg69 said:
Bingo. The M&P is very unforgiving if your pulling the trigger or flinching. I installed the apex FSST and it helped immensely. I have no problems with my glock or CZ but for some reason the stock M&P trigger gave me huge problems.
Click to expand...

Okay so I just spent some time dry firing at home here and I really don't think it's my trigger pull. The reason I say this is because I've just realized that my trigger pull is actually flicking the front sight UP, not pulling it down. That's the opposite of the problem I'm having. And I'm not flinching because I focused on that for 5 mags in a row and I can fire 50 shots without even blinking. Stone cold killer eyes... :)

Of course, I could still be wrong.
 
When the trigger breaks the sights should not jump up, down, sideways or any combination of any of these options. The gun should simply go "click". If the sight picture jumps it means you're tensioning your grip in some manner. So it's possible that you could have a flinch and not realize it.

Also it's pretty easy to dry fire just fine but still flinch when shooting live ammo. The tattle tale to use for this aspect is buy some snap caps. Have a buddy load your mags and randomly put snap caps in the mags at various points. Then see what happens when your gun goes "click" on a snap cap. Having your same buddy videoing your shooting from the side can help a lot.
 
From what I have seen and heard is they all shoot low and the only fix is adjustable sights. Novak, Williams Gun Sight Company, Dawson, and sure there are more brands I did not list.
 
BCRider said:
When the trigger breaks the sights should not jump up, down, sideways or any combination of any of these options. The gun should simply go "click". If the sight picture jumps it means you're tensioning your grip in some manner. So it's possible that you could have a flinch and not realize it.

Also it's pretty easy to dry fire just fine but still flinch when shooting live ammo. The tattle tale to use for this aspect is buy some snap caps. Have a buddy load your mags and randomly put snap caps in the mags at various points. Then see what happens when your gun goes "click" on a snap cap. Having your same buddy videoing your shooting from the side can help a lot.
Click to expand...

I agree.
Dry practice is great for building muscle memory for trigger control, but it won't uncover a flinch. Hidden dummy rounds are a great way to prove that it's you, not the gun.

You still have to fix the problem after learning what it is.
Try balancing a coin(flat) on the front sight while dry practicing. If you drop the coin, you just saved yourself a live round that missed your target...

Press the trigger straight to the rear.
No pulling, jerking, squeezing...none of that.
Concentrate on the front sight and slowly press the trigger straight to the rear.

Now is not the time to buy Apex upgrades.
You upgrade equipment when you surpass it's capability, not the other way around.

It's your money and hobby, and just my opinion.
 
Found said:
From what I have seen and heard is they all shoot low and the only fix is adjustable sights. Novak, Williams Gun Sight Company, Dawson, and sure there are more brands I did not list.
Click to expand...

From what I have heard they all shoot low and/or left. That doesn't make it true... lol

My m&p hits where I point it. Warren tac, non-adjustable sights.
 
BCRider said:
When the trigger breaks the sights should not jump up, down, sideways or any combination of any of these options. The gun should simply go "click". If the sight picture jumps it means you're tensioning your grip in some manner. So it's possible that you could have a flinch and not realize it.

Also it's pretty easy to dry fire just fine but still flinch when shooting live ammo. The tattle tale to use for this aspect is buy some snap caps. Have a buddy load your mags and randomly put snap caps in the mags at various points. Then see what happens when your gun goes "click" on a snap cap. Having your same buddy videoing your shooting from the side can help a lot.
Click to expand...
That's a good idea. I do have snap caps too, I'll give it a shot.

metcalfe said:
I agree.
Dry practice is great for building muscle memory for trigger control, but it won't uncover a flinch. Hidden dummy rounds are a great way to prove that it's you, not the gun.

You still have to fix the problem after learning what it is.
Try balancing a coin(flat) on the front sight while dry practicing. If you drop the coin, you just saved yourself a live round that missed your target...

Press the trigger straight to the rear.
No pulling, jerking, squeezing...none of that.
Concentrate on the front sight and slowly press the trigger straight to the rear.

Now is not the time to buy Apex upgrades.
You upgrade equipment when you surpass it's capability, not the other way around.

It's your money and hobby, and just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Good advice, thanks for that. I'll give the coin a try too.

Just as an aside, I shot mostly American Eagle FMJ but I had some TAP FPD I wanted to try out so I shot a couple mags of that. I found that with the TAP FPD they shot even lower. Does that make sense to anyone? The grain count is higher but not sure what it means (if anything).
 
Oh and just so I know for sure, if it's NOT my trigger pull (which I'm sure you guys are probably correct in saying it is now), can the stock sights be adjusted? Can the rear sight be raised? Or does this require a new sight?
 
When a Glock owner shoots low left, its shooter error.
Anticipating the recoil and too much finger on the trigger.

Blast off 1000rnds and see if the sights improve.
 
metcalfe said:
From what I have heard they all shoot low and/or left. That doesn't make it true... lol

My m&p hits where I point it. Warren tac, non-adjustable sights.
Click to expand...

The “seen part” was three at the club one being mine. I have had several people shoot mine and I also shot off bags to ensure it wasn’t me that was the factor. Everyone seems to be shooting it at the same spot. Another gentleman at the club having the same issue has a lot of firearms experience and shoots an S&W Model 52 for Bullseye shooting really well. So I would have to say it is the firearms in these cases and not the operators.
I bought a Henry a couple of years ago that I could not adjust the sights enough for windage. I sent Henry an e-mail and they immediately sent me out three different heights of front sight. So I think it can happen with any firearm manufacture and it does happen.
 
de-mix said:
When a Glock owner shoots low left, its shooter error.
Anticipating the recoil and too much finger on the trigger.

Blast off 1000rnds and see if the sights improve.
Click to expand...

Nothing truer than what this gentleman said. When I first for my M&P it drive me mad. I had shot berettas, a few glocks and some 1911's, and had not had a problem. The M&P trigger takes a lot of practice, and tinned of dry firing. I am by no means good now, but I don't swear every time I shoot anymore.
 
FightingIrish said:
Oh and just so I know for sure, if it's NOT my trigger pull (which I'm sure you guys are probably correct in saying it is now), can the stock sights be adjusted? Can the rear sight be raised? Or does this require a new sight?
Click to expand...

It might be just you, and it might not. The ONLY way to be sure is to have an accomplished shooter (or several) confirm the existence of a POA/POI problem. Nobody can diagnose this over the internet. Though some people seem pretty sure that they can do exactly that, apparently...

Ammunition makes a difference. Different recoil impulses affect the gun differently, not to mention a different trajectory of the actual projectile. Grip makes a difference, too: Too much heel, shots go high. Too much wrist, shots go low. Then there is finger pressure, support hand pressure, etc. That's all before you even get to the trigger pull.

With a "neutral" grip" and a straight trigger press, using 135 power factor 124gr handloaded ammo, my M&P9 with Warren Tactical fixed fiber optic sights shoots lower than I want at 10yds. This is confirmed by several experienced shooters. If you use a "dead hold" it's fine, but I prefer a 6 o'clock hold. Your illustration in the original post is exactly what I have to do with my sight picture. OR, I can change my grip so that it is no longer "neutral" in order to get the POI that I want.

Dry fire practice: Until you can consistently dry fire while balancing a spent casing on the front sight, your trigger pull is definitely the most likely suspect. Then, you still need to be able to transfer that clean break to live fire...

The only way to adjust those sights the way you want is to file down the front sight. Not recommended, until you are absolutely sure that that is the issue, and that you don't want to correct it using biological factors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom