Advice on a shop torch

If you are bending steel you should get oxy-acet. You don't need the cutting rig, just a torch. You can get the little tank setups quite cheaply from Princess Auto, even CT. You ill be frusterated by propane or MAPP.
 
It really depends what you plan on in the future. If what you state is all you'll ever do than get the cheapest oxy/acet setup you can find. If you'd like to cut the rusty u-bolts off your boat trailer, or need more available heat for bending something big you need at least a cutting torch attachment or maybe even a rose bud.
Depending on where you are make sure you look at where to buy/rent bottles first and the cost of that.

>>> Next you'll want a welder :D




Mike
 
Oxy-acetylene is the way to go. There should be some place near you that will lease you the bottles cheaply. Unless you need a man portable rig, don't buy the sets with the small bottles. Lease larger bottles. They are more cost effective, and you will be able to do more with them, especially if using a large tip for heating applications.

Buy an entry level brand name torch kit. Victor, Smith, Uniweld, etc...

You can get cheap chinese made kits that say "Victor type" and so forth, but in my experience the total cost is close to the brand name kits but the difference in quality is very noticable - no integrated flashback arresters or flow-check valves, tempermental regulators, etc... And none of the tips will actually be compatible with anything made in north America. I have one of the chinese kits and used to recommend them as "adequate for the money", but I've since changed my mind on that. I wouldn't recommend anything but a brand name kit now.

You sould be able to pick up a lower end victor kit for around $200 that includes hoses, regulators, handle, a cutting tip, a welding tip, a heating tip, goggles, and a striker, which is about all you will need to get started.

I also strongly recommend taking a basic gas welding course before you start, for safety's sake and to know what you are looking to buy if you are not familiar with operating gas torches.
 
I think you'll be happy with an oxy-propane set-up. You can use a regualr BBQ tank for the fuel, and the O2 is all you'll have to worry about.
 
I agree with Splatter. Oxy-propane setups are far better for non-industrial use, overall. O-P kits produce more than enough heat for 99.9% of anyones needs, and have none of the inherent dangers of acetylene, especially for novice users (ever notice the "Red Zone" on an acetylene regulator? That's called the Maximum Excitement Zone :eek: ).

Acetylene can only be used at a rate of approx. 7% of bottle capacity per hour, or the acetone in the tank will be drawn out and burned as well. Because of that, a tiny, portable O-A kit cannot be used with large rosebuds for big heating jobs. O-P doesn't have that problem. Propane can be drawn at any rate as long as it can vaporize quickly enough. It will help to keep smaller propane tanks warm if you're really a "power user". Now would be an appropriate time for me to mention that Costco sells 100lb propane tanks for around a hundred bucks, if I remember correctly.

Propane tanks also store more fuel per unit of tank weight, owing to the fact that acetylene tanks are full of portland cement and acetone, and have quite thick walls. Propane tanks are full of, well, propane...

The only fly in the ointment is that O-P produces a slightly lower maximum temperature than O-A, but still thousands of degrees more than is required to cut or weld anything you will encounter. A non-industrial user will not notice the difference.

Remember, in any account, to inform your insurance company that you will be gas welding on your property. Failure to do so will very likely cause non-payment when you burn down your shop/home/garage...

Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving,
Michael in Edmonton
 
I have a large oxy-acetylene set like would be used in a service station which I use in my garage.
But for gun work I have found a jewellers torch set in oxy-acet to be ideal for the heating requirements . Its small and easy to handle and puts out a nice range of heat depeding on the tip used. Nothing larger is necessary for silver soldering or bolt bending. A cutting torch has never yet been used at my gun bench.
 
Where would I find one of these jewellers sets? I have been looking around a bit. Also, where would I find the Oxy-propane setup? My local industrial store has sets of oxy-acetylene but they are very large and fairly expensive.
Thanks for the help guys.
Rob
 
I personally use oxy-propane but I think the drawback is that it is not quite hot enought to gas weld with. The good side is that I can cut up to 1"plate with it and use the torch a lot for silver soldering. Another point is that rental on a large oxygen tank is about $65/ year and about the same for a acetylene tank. Using propane (25 lb tank) saves the rental on the acetylene tank.
If you are going this route, I would suggest getting a cutting head plus a #2 welding tip for fine work. Unless I am mistaken propane tips are different from acetylene tips. The propane cutting tip has many more passages (actually is sort of like a sprocket internally). The welding tip for propane is a acetylene tip with a shallow recess drilled in the end.

cheers mooncoon
 
Casull said:
Where would I find one of these jewellers sets? I have been looking around a bit. Also, where would I find the Oxy-propane setup? My local industrial store has sets of oxy-acetylene but they are very large and fairly expensive.
Thanks for the help guys.
Rob
Click to expand...

Hey Rob,

This is one area that you are probably not going to get away with on the cheap :)

The Little Torch is pretty much a standard in the jewelry industry, and it's excellent for very small work. The basic kit comes with 5 tip sizes, but you would also want the melting tip for heating larger parts. The basic kit is about $100, but you would still need regulators, so you are looking at about $300 - $350 for the Little Torch anyway - and believe me, high quality regulators are a must with this tiny torch. So say $550-$600 with tank lease and gas included.

You can price them out by looking up jewelry supply stores in your area, or by buying online from Gesswein, Rio Grande, Eisinger, or Grobet USA. Gesswein and Eisinger have Canadian offices.

*I just remembered: Little Torch has a kit for using disposable Oxy/propane bottles. I checked and it is $199 through Gesswein. I don't know if it's any good though. I've never used one and I don't know anyone that has.
 
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Any gas supply business could get the jewellers torches for you if they don't have them in stock. I bought mine at Canadian Liquid Air.
If you plan on doing any amount of silver soldering or just soft soldering this is an excellant way to go. Big torches can make too much heat. When you try to tone them down they can "pop" and go out. You need quick hot heat that is very localized when doing gun work. Too much heat or slow heat will run out too far into the surrounding metal.
I have not tried oxy/propane but I think it might not be quick enough and tend to run out. A friend of mine tried this set up in his garage for a few years looking to economize but ended up going with a tank rental and acetylene. He has no intention of ever going back.
Buy the right tools for the job and you will always be content with your purchase. Buying something that has a broader application may not be as good for the specific task you have in mind.
Your decision--Talk to the fellows who sell the gas and welding supplies and then buy what you think is right for you. Economy in the short term doesn't always work out for the best in the long run.
 
Casull said:
What do you think of this port a torch kit from CT?
Talking to the local industrial supply. If I have an account with them, there is no rental fee on the tanks if I go that way, just buy the gas.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441900863&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517562&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517587&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474396669868&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396669868&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1160432511059
Click to expand...

That looks like a pretty good set up - a similar Uniweld rig is available from Acklands for $461. I'd only have two concerns about it:

1. Is it brand name? Not all torch accessories are interchangable. If you went with say, the Uniweld kit, you would be assured that you could get extra tips, etc... for it if you need them in the future.

2. Are the tanks going to be big enough for your heating application? If you are planning on using a larger heating tip with it, you may want larger tanks. You can talk to your local industrial supply about that though.

Otherwise - and without knowing specifically what you would be using it for :) - itseems like a good deal.
 
Thanks guys, that gives me some more questions to ask the industrial supply shop.
My intended use, will be silver soldering, bending, heating and maybe some small gas welding.
There is a set at Northern Metallic also that I am going to go in and have a look at as well as the set mentioned at Acklands.
The full size set without bottles sells here for almost $500, so prices are all running the same. I like a deal, but I do want a quality set and would rather pay for that. Hope I can find an evening class or something too, I have little experience to start with.
 
I could never see the advantage to gas welding.
Electric arc (Mig/Tig and stick) seems faster, with less potential heat migration and more versatile.
What am I missing?
 
Splatter said:
I could never see the advantage to gas welding.
Electric arc (Mig/Tig and stick) seems faster, with less potential heat migration and more versatile.
What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Actually, gas is quite a bit more versatile than electric. You have a lot more control over the process. You can weld with a filler metal of the same type as you are welding, so that a part can be heat treated all the way through, for example. You can weld other metals besides steel like aluminum, bronze, etc... without changing rigs. You can braze or solder. You can weld quite thick or quite thin, large or small parts. You can throw your rig on a truck and weld in the middle of nowhere without the need for a generator.

And those are just the welding operations, let alone what you can do in terms of heating and cutting.
 
going back to rgwhitman's comments, if protecting an area from overheating is a concern, then you should be using heat sinks to protect them.

cheers mooncoon
 
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