Advice on IPSC Production gun: SP-01 Shadow or P30L
- Thread starter f4iguy
- Start date
I made it in the bottom of the top 10 twice at nationals with a p30l, so I think you can do well with one, but the Shadow has a lot of advantages.
Even with my history with the p30 I have a tough time recommending it, I don't feel it held me back but who knows. Shadows aren't for everyone. Get a gun you like and shoot the hell of of it.
Even with my history with the p30 I have a tough time recommending it, I don't feel it held me back but who knows. Shadows aren't for everyone. Get a gun you like and shoot the hell of of it.
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What would be the drawbacks in your experience of using one?
The grip can not be complained about...you have a gazillion grip combinations...but the magwell sucks,..and unless you are used to using a paddle release mag release, you will have to use it exclusively to get it into muscle memory.
The trigger can be bettered but not keeping you in production division,..unless there are lighter hammer springs and firing pin block springs available. Yep...parts are not "readily" available, and you pay a premium for them I would imagine. Magazines are overpriced if I recall...like $75 each?
You can get sights for them,..like fibre optic units. ONe thing you get when buying one is that they are more reliable than most guns I see at the range...
I have high hopes for the VP9,...better trigger (striker fired in the 5.5 lb range), lower bore height,....although I forget what the magwell looked like, I do not think it changed much. I handled one in Florida,..everyone I saw handling it commented on how comfortable it felt in the hand. They are numerous reviews on youtube of the VP9, and my advice would be to wait and get the Canadian version of the VP9, and forget about the P30L,...if I had to compete using one, I would get a P30L-S.
The trigger can be bettered but not keeping you in production division,..unless there are lighter hammer springs and firing pin block springs available. Yep...parts are not "readily" available, and you pay a premium for them I would imagine. Magazines are overpriced if I recall...like $75 each?
You can get sights for them,..like fibre optic units. ONe thing you get when buying one is that they are more reliable than most guns I see at the range...
I have high hopes for the VP9,...better trigger (striker fired in the 5.5 lb range), lower bore height,....although I forget what the magwell looked like, I do not think it changed much. I handled one in Florida,..everyone I saw handling it commented on how comfortable it felt in the hand. They are numerous reviews on youtube of the VP9, and my advice would be to wait and get the Canadian version of the VP9, and forget about the P30L,...if I had to compete using one, I would get a P30L-S.
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- Halifax - NS
As far as I'm concerned, the last two posts only apply if you're planning to shoot for fun.
A pro can compensate for any failing in a gun; he'll put so many rounds through it and train with it so much that it does not matter.
Human beings, (people with families, jobs, commitments - IE. all of us) can take advantage of the inherit advantages that some gun designs offer (ie. tanfo & CZ) and artificially boost our performance over those shooting less-IPSC-friendly guns. (ie Glock & HK)
If you want to succeed at the match; get the design that offers the most advantages; and right now its the CZ/Tanfo/Jericho/BE platform. If you don't care, shoot whatever you want.
A pro can compensate for any failing in a gun; he'll put so many rounds through it and train with it so much that it does not matter.
Human beings, (people with families, jobs, commitments - IE. all of us) can take advantage of the inherit advantages that some gun designs offer (ie. tanfo & CZ) and artificially boost our performance over those shooting less-IPSC-friendly guns. (ie Glock & HK)
If you want to succeed at the match; get the design that offers the most advantages; and right now its the CZ/Tanfo/Jericho/BE platform. If you don't care, shoot whatever you want.
Here is a guy using an HK P30L for IPSC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8bn1-L-D3M
And Viper 26 has a point about the top shooters using different brands etc.
2009 production champ shoots CZ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXImKCAHre0
Ladies 2014 champ shoots Tangfolio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CM7oNt5Tqk
2011 Champ shoots Glock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBsCQC8kaE4
The Pro HK team is also in the top places it seems ( from 2012) - Not bad considering their first pro shooter team was established in 2011.
The HK Shooting Team started the competitive shooting season off with the Georgia State Steel Challenge Championship held Feb. 3-4 at the Griffin Gun club, in Griffin, GA. The tournament features eight steel challenge courses of fire and requires a minimum of 195 rounds to complete each division. Team Captain Jason Koon finished 5th in production and 1st in 22 limited. Also competing in production, HK Team member John Rasmussen finished 6th. Team members continue to use their P30Ls as standard factory configured “out of the box.”
"We are very excited to start the competitive shooting season off with a top ten finish. We have a great group this year and it will be exciting to see what we can continue to do with our P30Ls," said Jason Koon.
The next match for the Team will be S&W IDPA Indoor Nationals in Springfield, MA, held Feb. 23-25. Sponsors supporting the Team include Atlanta Arms & Ammo, Rainier Ballistics, HK Knives by Benchmade, Federal Premium Ammunition, Otis Technology, CPWSA.com and JR Holster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8bn1-L-D3M
And Viper 26 has a point about the top shooters using different brands etc.
2009 production champ shoots CZ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXImKCAHre0
Ladies 2014 champ shoots Tangfolio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CM7oNt5Tqk
2011 Champ shoots Glock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBsCQC8kaE4
The Pro HK team is also in the top places it seems ( from 2012) - Not bad considering their first pro shooter team was established in 2011.
The HK Shooting Team started the competitive shooting season off with the Georgia State Steel Challenge Championship held Feb. 3-4 at the Griffin Gun club, in Griffin, GA. The tournament features eight steel challenge courses of fire and requires a minimum of 195 rounds to complete each division. Team Captain Jason Koon finished 5th in production and 1st in 22 limited. Also competing in production, HK Team member John Rasmussen finished 6th. Team members continue to use their P30Ls as standard factory configured “out of the box.”
"We are very excited to start the competitive shooting season off with a top ten finish. We have a great group this year and it will be exciting to see what we can continue to do with our P30Ls," said Jason Koon.
The next match for the Team will be S&W IDPA Indoor Nationals in Springfield, MA, held Feb. 23-25. Sponsors supporting the Team include Atlanta Arms & Ammo, Rainier Ballistics, HK Knives by Benchmade, Federal Premium Ammunition, Otis Technology, CPWSA.com and JR Holster.
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The trigger is the biggest drawback. It is smooth and consistent but long in travel and reset, fairly heavy (4.5-5lb single action) and a challenge to shoot fast. Even with my experience I was short stroking the trigger at critical times in a recent match. There is no 'sport' trigger or springs for the P series pistols so you have to work with what you get from the factory. The CZ style guns have factory options that make the trigger ridiculously light, smooth and easy to shoot.
Maintenance and replacement parts are not really an issue, in 30,000+ rounds I replaced one recoil spring (recommended at 25,000 rounds) and had the sear spring break. I know that folks have waited as long or longer for Shadow parts. Mags are expensive, but they are tough and reliable.
It sounds like you really want to get a P30L and compete with it, so go for it! Work hard and put in the practice and you will be able to beat your local shooters, work really hard and you may find that you can go even farther.
bettieguitar
Regular
^The truth^
The first think that I would do is think of how involved you want to get with handguns. How many you want to buy and how much you have to spend. I say this because once you drink the HK koolaid you will be hooked and will be shooting and spending like you never thought. HK's are expensive and addictive. I would recommend the HK without a doubt. I don't want to shot what everyone else is shooting. If the two guns were the same price you would see a lot more HK's. To me competition is about having fun with whatever I decide to compete with. I might decide to compete with my HK P7 or Mark 23. Far from typical IPSC guns, but I enter a competition with the main focus being to shoot whatever gun I choose and have fun doing it. Being competitive and winning is of no importance. For the most part you will win with whatever you are holding in your hand if you are the better shooter. Others will have a completely different view.
If you can, try a Grand Power X-Calibur, or even a K100 X-Trim. They are very soft-shooting (low recoil) guns, and after I put grip tape on them, I find they feel better in my hand then my CZ Shadow. The Shadow has a slightly better DA/SA trigger, but I think there's still a lot of potential for improvement in the Grand Power triggers. They don't yet have the benefit of a wide selection of OEM hammer springs and tuning parts. The trigger does respond well to a bit of polishing though.
Get a Shadow, have a trigger job done, change the springs, hammer and put on a set of alum. grips. You'll have as good a Production gun as can be had. If you want to spend more well there is always the tanfo stock 2 and 3 extremes that are ###y...
My Shadow is flawless and very accurate. For my smaller hands I did have to get the thin Metal CZ grips and I switched to the alternate factory trigger spring kit. This makes the first trigger pull much better and the remaining single action pulls crisper as well. Plus I believe the trigger sits back a bit further which helps with the first trigger pull, but that could be my imagination.
You really can't go wrong with it.
You really can't go wrong with it.
As long as the DA trigger pull is no less than 5 lbs your good to go, you can tune your trigger to your liking adding factory springs & parts, use a dremel to polish the internals...etc. There's no PD rule that forbids trigger jobs.
IMO it would take a royal commission and a very confident / very debatable judgement call to determine whether a Production gun had a 'trigger job'. You can get new trigger sets but who is going to take apart a Production gun and be able to know from sight the lineage of the trigger sets. Remember you are permitted to get OFM parts. And then also to determine how much work was done to it to make it not "other than minor detailing (the removal of burrs and/or adjustments unavoidably required in order to fit replacement OFM parts or components),". It is an interpretation call so no one should make it.
Who is going a) suspect that a shooter is gaining an advantage because they have a trigger job while shooting a stage b) is willing to make the interpretation of something that is not really defined in the rule book c) be able to judge from sight there were illegal modifications or a part was not OFM d) find a range master who will also back up that call.
Will never happen. If a trigger is so light it is out of control that gun is out anyway. I would like to know how else it could happen.
Who is going a) suspect that a shooter is gaining an advantage because they have a trigger job while shooting a stage b) is willing to make the interpretation of something that is not really defined in the rule book c) be able to judge from sight there were illegal modifications or a part was not OFM d) find a range master who will also back up that call.
Will never happen. If a trigger is so light it is out of control that gun is out anyway. I would like to know how else it could happen.
