Advice on shooting and getting better with older rifles.

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Chrono8

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Hey there everyone, I recently acquired my PAL and have already ordered a m1 garand from a member of the forums.


I have also purchased a gsg stg 44 in .22 for practice. (Although it love a .22 milsurp like k98 or lee)



My question is what would be your reccomendations for getting better? I know this is very broad and why I picked up the .22 to get used to aiming and cheap ammo. Any videos you recommend for technique specific for the garand?

As most of my searches bring up old military videos (which I have watched)

My other idea would be to pick up something like an SKS where I could used to firing lots of heavier rounds for cheap and get good at maintaining a rifle as most the surplus tends to be corrosive. As well used to heavier recoil. Any opinions welcome thanks!


Luckily enough for me my PAL instructor had a spam can of Greek surplus that he sold me for very cheap. Unopened. But 192 rounds won't last long I'm sure.

And all other surplus 30 06 seems to be a pipe dream. As well I am aware of the specific loads of the garand and eventually trying my hand at reloading.
 
General info for milsurps I'd give is: get used to bad sights, or find the guns with good sights. Don't expect great triggers or great accuracy, the minimums they expected for accuracy in those days were not as high as people would have you believe.

If you want a really cheap way to emulate an M1, get an SKS and put a tecsight rear sight on it. It'll give you a similar sight radius and get you used to peep sights.

DO NOT run commercial ammo through your M1 without getting an aftermarket gas system. Prvi and American Eagle both make ammo specifically for the M1, I'd stick to those.

This guy was originally in med school then joined the AF and went special ops. His videos are usually about modern stuff, but he has some videos about M1 Garand's, which just happens to be his namesake. I'd suggest watching a bunch of his videos, they're full of useful information.
 
Hi. You'll love the GSG its really accurate and great fun. If you've ordered an M1 research/look for an ERMA M1 22 - its German surplus post war trainer - same weight and feel as its big brother, though not the same components inside. One of the sponsors above has one - Tradeex.

Like they say on TV its all about practice practice practice. One tip would be to start in closer and move further out as you get better. Use the same rifle over and over to become good at reading its sights.

Have fun!
 
Learn to use and get comfortable using a sling, it will really help to steady you while shooting from various positions other than off bags and a bench although you can use it off bags as well. Try and relax and breath, pay attention to your trigger as you squeeze it till it breaks the shot.
 
Thank you everyone for your indepth advice! I really appreciate all the information provided! Now I have even more rifles I want...With that ERMA M1 22. As well it seems to be a Canadian right of passage to own an SKS so might as well throw that in too...

I have also ordered a leather sling, but i might consider getting a web sling too.
 
Chrono8 said:
Thank you everyone for your indepth advice! I really appreciate all the information provided! Now I have even more rifles I want...With that ERMA M1 22. As well it seems to be a Canadian right of passage to own an SKS so might as well throw that in too...

I have also ordered a leather sling, but i might consider getting a web sling too.
Click to expand...

If you get an SKS, my tips to you would be:

Confirm that you get a chrome lined barrel
Make sure the stock isn't garbage. I prefer laminate stocks myself.
Check the condition of the piston, and make sure the extractor has a little play.
 
p.Rundle said:
If you get an SKS, my tips to you would be:

Confirm that you get a chrome lined barrel
Make sure the stock isn't garbage. I prefer laminate stocks myself.
Check the condition of the piston, and make sure the extractor has a little play.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, I will make sure on all these things before I purchase one, they seem to be available everywhere and varying widely in price too.
would you recommend the Chinese or Russian?
 
Learn to reload, the cheaper your ammo, the more you can shoot, and with reading, talking and listening to experienced shooters, getting into some type of competition is how I learned the little I know now;)
 
Chrono8 said:
Thank you very much, I will make sure on all these things before I purchase one, they seem to be available everywhere and varying widely in price too.
would you recommend the Chinese or Russian?
Click to expand...

I'd go Russian, but a late production. Ideally a 1954 or later. Make sure you verify those things and you'll be good. There's a gunshow coming up in Calgary this weekend, and I'm sure there will be lots of SKS'. Maybe try to make it there!
 
Get a copy of Jim Owens' "Leather Sling and Shooting Positions" book. Best $15 (USD) you'll ever spend learning how to shoot.
Take the time to learn, really LEARN YOUR rifle. Also, learn proper sight picture(s) and learn about "Natural Point of Aim" (npoa) and use it. Trigger time is your friend. Learn to reload--it's not brain surgery or rocket science.
Brings an old adage to mind: "Beware the man who owns only one gun. He probably knows how to use it".
Jon
 
Best thing you can do to improve your shooting with milsurps? Trigger jobs. That being said, with collectable firearms, it is unadvisable to touch them at, including triggers.
 
Buy or download a copy of SHOOT TO LIVE.

It is the Canadian late-WW2 manual on practical marksmanship, based on the Number 4 Rifle and its excellent aperture sights..... which work the same as those on a Garand.

Then spend a whole dollar, get a pair of second-hand jeans from the second-hand store, chop the legs into 2 pieces for the one, 3 for the other, fill the pieces with wheat and sew them shut. You now have a set of aiming/resting bags.

Shoot slowly, taking careful aim, off the bags.

You will be amazed at HOW good you can get, and just how fast!
 
Chrono8: Lots of great advice in this thread. I think the gist of much of it is: don't just plink in a garbage dump- set up proper targets and work on technique using sandbags on a bench as well as shooting from other positions. Personally I would suggest considering an SVT 40 if you want to buy another semi-auto rifle that will give you fullbore recoil plus cheap ammo. They are typically more accurate than an SKS and better for practicing marksmanship. Or get a Mauser chambered in 7.62x51.

milsurpo
 
M1 Garand as a first gun....what a way to start! I loved my Garand, but 30-06 isn't exactly an economical plinking round and I sold it. I've owned all the higher end milsurps (Lee Enfields, Swiss K31, Mosin M39, Garand, Swede & German Mausers), and while they are pure joy to shoot, I always end up grabbing my beat-to-s*it 91/30, SKS or Ruger 10/22 when I need to make noise after a bad day at the office. If you want to learn shooting basics (and not drain the piggy bank), small calibers and/or cheap surplus ammo is the way to go. Mosins are also easy to tinker with to tighten up accuracy (lots of youtube vids on this). Start at 50 metres shooting off bags to learn the sights (and how to adjust) and build confidence, then move out to 100m (and beyond). Happy shooting!
 
Honestly overwhelmed with the support and information on this forum and posts from you fine people. I will take all this into consideration and practice, practice, practice. As well with all the information on different downloadable reading etc, and filling my own bags for shooting. Thanks!
 
If and when you decide to take up reloading- cast bullets are the way to go for "cheap" practice. I've had excellent success with cast in many military calibers. 30-06 (not Garand), 303 Br, 7.62 Russian, 8x57 in a Yugo, 7.7 Jap ,7.62 Nato (in a FR7) 7.62x54 MAS etc.

Had my 03-A3 out to range on Sunday. Hadn't fired it in 5 yrs. 20 rds of cast at 4-5 inch gong off a bench- forend only rested. Two shooters 10 rds each- 20 hits! Got to love it.
 
My personal recommendations are as follows:

1) learn what type of sights you have, different rifles have different types of sights and are aimed differently (for example a Carcano and a K98k both have 'V' notch sights however for the Carcano the front post is at the bottom of the 'V' and the K98k lines the top of the 'V' with the front sight). They are also set to different setting for your minimum. For example a Gewehr 98 has a 400m minimum sight setting well a K31 has a 100m minimum. When buying a rifle make sure you research this before hand as it can make a big difference in how you shoot (i.e. do you have to aim below the target for every shot, or right on at point of aim?).

2) learn what type of ammo you should use. Those sight settings are calibrated for a specific loading which will be different for each nation at various different times. Odds are you might not have access to the exact loading that existed then (for example you can't buy 244grn .323 open based round nose bullets to try and duplicate 8x50r Austrian anywhere), and might come up with a better loading (or makeshift loading) tailored specifically to your rifle.

3) Factory ammo isn't the best. Reloading will get you much better results than factory ammo. If your looking to actually get the most out of your rifle it is the only way with milsurps, especially when your trying to find the best load for your 100+ year old rifle. For many milsurps it is literally the only option to actually get ammo.

4) don't expect sub-MOA groupings. The reality is most milsurp rifles with excellent bores will only do 1-3 MOA at best with handloads, the lesser the bore condition the lesser the result. There are exemptions to this, but overall you won't get much better than that.

People are saying things like the SVT and SKS, and the reality is if you want to get good at shooting avoid both those rifles. Both aren't particularly accurate, and unless your using surplus (which isn't very good for accuracy to begin with) it is going to be expensive. Most milsurp bolt actions will outperform many of the early semi-automatic rifles in the accuracy department. You also have less to worry about safety wise as many of the early semi-automatics aren't nearly as safe as later designs. There are some accurate semi-auto milsurps out there (the M1 Garand and AG-42b are fairly well known for accuracy), however they both require rounds tailored specifically to them (whereas a bolt action you have a bit more leaway in terms of what the rifle will run safely and reliably).

If you want to stay more casual I would recommend later bolt actions as they tend to have 100m-200m rear sight setting and also tend to be in more commonly available calibers at the moment (i.e. .30-06, 8mm Mauser, .303 British, 7.62 Nato, etc.).

Overall I wish you the best of luck, there is something that is pretty satisfying about getting these old rifles out and running. Last weekend I got a Gewehr 88/05 out and managed to get a five rd, 2" group at 100m with a bit of time and effort. Took many attempts at reloading to get the ammo right and feeding correctly into my rifle, but in the end the result was worthwhile.
 
Right on. That's a lot of information thank you for taking the time to write it. The m1 and a k98 are probably going to be my main focuses. I understand the tolerances and accuracies won't be on par with modern rifles to extent, but I'm hoping over time I can begin to get much more accurate from all positions.


I see some places offer a like one stop kit for reloading(press etc) the only problem is my current home doesn't have a garage or proper like workshop. I assume if I bought a half decent fold bench I could still mount a press on it for reloading.
 
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