I reload at my kitchen table! Lee makes a light reloading press that you can bolt to a piece of 2x4 and then C-clamp it to a desk. https://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html Very inexpensive. There's lots of gear for reloading out there, but that's a discussion for a different thread I think. Getting back to shooting, one other user mentioned handloads vs factory, and that person was spot on. Military chambers are generous, and I've had best results using brass that is fire-formed to the rifle, and then playing with bullet seating depth to create truly custom ammo for that rifle. On my oldest rifles, I load reduced charges with light bullets just to go a little easier on the rifle. And for plinking pop cans at 50 or less metres you don't need a full power military loading!
Advice on shooting and getting better with older rifles.
- Thread starter Chrono8
- Start date
Ok awesome! That's fantastic information. Good to know I can do that. Definitely seems like the way to go so hopefully it all works out. Look forward to learning...and messing up as long as I don't hurt the rifle it's all good to me in the end.
For reloading - the best way to start is have an experienced person teach you. I was lucky and had a pal with 30+ years experience walk me through my first 20 cartridges. Trying to learn watching youtube and reading posts on forums such as this are great, but nothing beats a mentor to show you the steps in person.
google M1 Garand Marksmanship and watch all the old military training videos on shooting the M1 Garand rifle. They are really great! You will learn a ton. Also, google th Canadian Army instructional book produced in 1945 called "Shoot To Live" Another amazing resource on shooting with military peep sights!
Cheers,
Ian
Cheers,
Ian
I have or have owned most milsurps out there, my two cents; sks's are fun, not super accurate but fun, I put spring loaded firing pins in mine and they worked well for me. Bolt actions are typically more accurate, love my Mosins and Lee Enfields. 8mm Mauser and 30-06 take some time to get accurate with as they have more oomph. Reloading most rifle cartridges is very worthwhile from many aspects, including accuracy and cost.
I recommend a trainer rifle!
#1 CZ 452 or 455 model with leaf sights, this is typically sold as the CZ-452 ZKM or 455 Lux 2. This model with have leaf sights like many of your milsurps.
I bought a CZ 452 ZKM with leaf sights. It shoots amazing and the sights are very similar to the Mosin/SKS/SVT40 they match up with 25m increments that so far out to 100m are spot on accurate. It is the perfect trainer to your military surplus rifle. I recommend it 100% and I have only fired maybe 50 rounds from the rifle and it has impressed me that much.
#2 I also own a JW25a that is a slightly scaled down trainer replica of a K98 mauser . Both would be excellent options to practise your iron sight shooting at low cost to translate that skill over to your big rifles. Unfortunately these rifles are hard to find. They were sold for under $250 but perform well above their price point and as such not many are on the resale market because the low price tends to keep them with their owners.
Some of your Milsurp rifles may turn out to be near match accurate others may have a tough time hitting the broad side of a barn. Part of the fun is trying them out at first seeing what happens then so long as they perform reasonably well with commercial loads you can tinker with reloading, hunting etc.. with that rifle. For the guns that like to spread the lead out evenly on the paper well they can still be fun to shoot and tinker with or move on to allow someone else to do it. When mosins sks and svts were less expensive than now I bought several of each rifle and kept the few I liked best and passed on the ones which were not my favourites.
#1 CZ 452 or 455 model with leaf sights, this is typically sold as the CZ-452 ZKM or 455 Lux 2. This model with have leaf sights like many of your milsurps.
I bought a CZ 452 ZKM with leaf sights. It shoots amazing and the sights are very similar to the Mosin/SKS/SVT40 they match up with 25m increments that so far out to 100m are spot on accurate. It is the perfect trainer to your military surplus rifle. I recommend it 100% and I have only fired maybe 50 rounds from the rifle and it has impressed me that much.
#2 I also own a JW25a that is a slightly scaled down trainer replica of a K98 mauser . Both would be excellent options to practise your iron sight shooting at low cost to translate that skill over to your big rifles. Unfortunately these rifles are hard to find. They were sold for under $250 but perform well above their price point and as such not many are on the resale market because the low price tends to keep them with their owners.
Some of your Milsurp rifles may turn out to be near match accurate others may have a tough time hitting the broad side of a barn. Part of the fun is trying them out at first seeing what happens then so long as they perform reasonably well with commercial loads you can tinker with reloading, hunting etc.. with that rifle. For the guns that like to spread the lead out evenly on the paper well they can still be fun to shoot and tinker with or move on to allow someone else to do it. When mosins sks and svts were less expensive than now I bought several of each rifle and kept the few I liked best and passed on the ones which were not my favourites.
Practice "dryfiring" as much as you can from the prone position at home.
Don't have to re-#### it, just squeeze the trigger with the purpose of the exercise being to keep the sight from moving during aiming and avoiding anticipation of the shot release.
See how slight differences in your position changes the stability of your hold.
Keep front elbow under center-line of rifle to support the weight. Let bones support it, not muscles.
Trigger hand's thumb should not cross over the top of the stock wrist, that can lead to jerking the trigger.
Use as small a target as you can see at any distance with the front sight you have.
Always call you shots as to where you think they should have gone.
Once you're ok with the prone position, then do it again for the standing position.
http://www.smallborerifle.co.uk/pronebodyposition.php
Don't have to re-#### it, just squeeze the trigger with the purpose of the exercise being to keep the sight from moving during aiming and avoiding anticipation of the shot release.
See how slight differences in your position changes the stability of your hold.
Keep front elbow under center-line of rifle to support the weight. Let bones support it, not muscles.
Trigger hand's thumb should not cross over the top of the stock wrist, that can lead to jerking the trigger.
Use as small a target as you can see at any distance with the front sight you have.
Always call you shots as to where you think they should have gone.
Once you're ok with the prone position, then do it again for the standing position.
http://www.smallborerifle.co.uk/pronebodyposition.php
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Do Not Dry Fire your milsurp guns as a common practise except to release the trigger spring pressure on a closed/cocked bolt. You run the risk of wear and tear on parts that are not easily replaceable. Snap caps are available in all of your milsurp calibres and if you are going to buy milsurps you should check to ensure that the guns your looking to buy are in fact 8mm or 7.62x54 etc and not altered over 60-100+years.
Also for training and practise having a full magazine of snap caps allows you to practise cycling a whole mag through your rifle at home to ensure proper function of the firearm. It may sound silly but I have a full Canadian magazines worth +1 of every calibre I own in Lymann Azoom snap caps.
This is why I have snap caps and always will. I found a fault in 1 of my SKS where if you release the magazine releases to dump the mag with a round still in the chamber and the safety off on occasion the firing pin may drop. Again with the safety off, rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber, pull magazine release to open magazine and "click" the round in the chamber would have discharged had it been live. Finding this fault made me very careful in proofing all of my guns before any live ammunition comes close to them. The way I figure it that snap cap may have saved a big accident from happening as I know now that no matter what the safety goes back on ALL of the SKS before opening the magazine release.
Develop positional shooting such as Standing, kneeling, prone, sitting and work on consistently applying rapid, snap and deliberate fire. Once you become familiar or used to a pace while securing a good degree of accuracy turn it up a notch and go faster incrementally. Be prepared to step outside your comfort zone. Have a look at some of the videos out there demonstrating this through the 2018 Cabin Fever Challenge.
For the rifle make sure the sights are tight and the stock bedding is sound and per spec and that the rifling is sound with a good barrel that is unworn at the muzzle. For the ammo high quality handloads will bring out the best in any MILSURP. For the shooter develop a consistent trigger squeeze and learn to maintain a good sight picture.
If you want to shade your bets at the range keep the sun behind you to better illuminate the target and use a square of rectangular "bull" where you can consistently set the front sight at the 6 o'clock position. Make sure sights are blackened/smoked to eliminate shine. Good benchrest technique will help to minimize the human variable and will enable you to test the rifle and ammo themselves. It takes a bit of experimentation with various bullets and propellants to develop the best handload, but going with a match grade bullet is always good.
If you want to shade your bets at the range keep the sun behind you to better illuminate the target and use a square of rectangular "bull" where you can consistently set the front sight at the 6 o'clock position. Make sure sights are blackened/smoked to eliminate shine. Good benchrest technique will help to minimize the human variable and will enable you to test the rifle and ammo themselves. It takes a bit of experimentation with various bullets and propellants to develop the best handload, but going with a match grade bullet is always good.
Two thoughts-
1) the K98 kicks like the proverbial mule. Some folks handle recoil better than others, but I found mine to be brutal. Take a shot, absorb the recoil, and my fingers would be "ringing". Eventually, I traded the rifle away.
2) I use large C clamps to mount my press on the corner of my desk. Not elegant, but it works.
Look into taking a Project Mapleseed course
You will learn
1 How to use your sling
2 shooting standing, sitting and prone
3 point of aim
4 how to use iron sights
and much more
also you will meet some nice folks
https://mapleseedrifleman.com
You will learn
1 How to use your sling
2 shooting standing, sitting and prone
3 point of aim
4 how to use iron sights
and much more
also you will meet some nice folks
https://mapleseedrifleman.com
Your best bet for accuracy is going to be inspecting a rifle before you buy it, one scuffed up crown an bad barrel on a mosin might mean 5 or more inches at 100 yards. If you want to actually shoot the thing put your eyes and hands on it if you can before Money changes hands.
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I bought 8 30 06 snaps and 6 8mm Mauser ones coming !
I struggle with the whole "Kicks like a mule " concept. I am suspecting that the power of suggestion is at play in this topic.Perhaps bench shooting, which I rarely do...has a lot to do with it as well.
I am not that big, or that tough IMO. I seem to handle it OK, as do most of my kids. I've shot 8 x 57 through a M95, and found it quite manageable ( M95's are purported 'Kickers' as well).
If you've been told it's 'Bronc'y' you'll find it such perhaps?
It's subjective. All I know is that the 98 had noticeably more recoil than a .303, and I got tired of that quickly.
You might be right about the bench aspect. Our range has no prone shooting positions, something we're looking to correct when we start to rebuild after the wildfires.
You might be right about the bench aspect. Our range has no prone shooting positions, something we're looking to correct when we start to rebuild after the wildfires.
I've been shooting milsurps for just 6 years.
I started with a 22 rifle and shot a lot.
I also read books on shooting technique like "shoot to live" .
I worked my way up in calibers like 6.5x52 , 6.5x55, 7.62x39, then 303, 54r and finally 8x57 and 30-06.
I think the main thing that helped me with learning to read wind and proper trigger technique and follow through is the fact that I shoot a ton of cast bullets at 1800 fps. Cast loads can be so accurate that often I've surprised myself at the groups I've shot. Shooting cast bullets at say 200 yards in the wind is a lot like shooting full power loads at 600 yards I find. I'm often holding 6 moa or more to compensate for wind with a cast load where as shooting regular loads I may not have to adjust at all for wind at 200 yards.
The thing with shooting cast loads or 22 is the fact that your mistakes are often more evident as the bullet takes longer to leave the bore so any poor technique will reduce ones ability to shoot tiny little groups. Trigger pull, breathing and good follow through are even more important if you take 1000 fps off your load.
Lastly of you shoot low recoiling calibers like 22lr you won't develope a flinch. I've seen many people go too big too fast and end not being able to hit a pie plate at 100 yards cause they are flinching really bad.
In my experience the guys who shoot the best that I've seen are the ones that shoot the most and have the best technique, never the ones who have the newest fanciest gear.
They say practice makes perfect and that is 100% when it comes to shooting..
I started with a 22 rifle and shot a lot.
I also read books on shooting technique like "shoot to live" .
I worked my way up in calibers like 6.5x52 , 6.5x55, 7.62x39, then 303, 54r and finally 8x57 and 30-06.
I think the main thing that helped me with learning to read wind and proper trigger technique and follow through is the fact that I shoot a ton of cast bullets at 1800 fps. Cast loads can be so accurate that often I've surprised myself at the groups I've shot. Shooting cast bullets at say 200 yards in the wind is a lot like shooting full power loads at 600 yards I find. I'm often holding 6 moa or more to compensate for wind with a cast load where as shooting regular loads I may not have to adjust at all for wind at 200 yards.
The thing with shooting cast loads or 22 is the fact that your mistakes are often more evident as the bullet takes longer to leave the bore so any poor technique will reduce ones ability to shoot tiny little groups. Trigger pull, breathing and good follow through are even more important if you take 1000 fps off your load.
Lastly of you shoot low recoiling calibers like 22lr you won't develope a flinch. I've seen many people go too big too fast and end not being able to hit a pie plate at 100 yards cause they are flinching really bad.
In my experience the guys who shoot the best that I've seen are the ones that shoot the most and have the best technique, never the ones who have the newest fanciest gear.
They say practice makes perfect and that is 100% when it comes to shooting..
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