Advice on training material for my retriever
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Find someone with homing pigeons that wants to scale their flock down you can dizzy them and hide them in grass which I did when I started training pointers but I found it worked better to make a thrower to launch the pigeons then I could trigger it at the right time.the fellow I got my pigeons from charged $5 a bird and$2.50 for them if I screw my part of the training up and they made it back home.
the spank
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When Chisholm got his first dog and was working with him I gave him the name and # of a fellow heavily involved with the local retriever club and involved in field trials for 30+ years. When Chisholm called him and went out training with them it changed the entire game for him & his dog. He told me several times he was really enjoying it and learned a ton from those guys. Heed his advice and join a retriever club. I no longer own a dog but I can tell you without hesitation it's been an absolute joy hunting over Chisholm's dogs the past 6 seasons. He has put alot of hours into training them and it shows come hunt day.
Out of pure curiosity, and with all due respect: what is "training a real water dog to todays standards". Have dogs, water and ducks changed that much over the years,?? Blind retrieves by hand signals and whistles in a vegetated duck pond or swamp I don't think have changed in the least over the years, so I doubt if the so called "standards" have changed, unless it's in someone's mind. I have trained 3 labs in my day. With the first one I was as enthusiastic as the dog and we trained and hunted a lot and did field trial's. We were in invited to the Hunting show in Toronto several times. Never did one of my dogs have to go through any sort of force fetch training. If it's the training that I think your taking about I would not subject a dog to that training. I would be looking for a better bred dog. If you buy good well bred pups from well known breeders that bred for hunting and retrieving skills you will save your self a lot of training nightmare's. I had a tri tronics collar that I used for my last male as he had a nasty habit of ranging to far when on pheasants. But over all I wouldn't say an E collar is a absolute necessary training tool, as perhaps the Op's dog will not be problematic enough to warrant the expense. In the wrong inexperienced hands a E collar can do away more harm than good.
To the OP, bedside's books and CD's on the subject, I would also suggest joining a hunting and retrieving club. You and the dog will both learn. You how to teach the dog from experienced fellas and the dog will gain enthusiasm, social skills and knowledge from being in the presence of other retrievers. Out of the books, video's and meeting and observing other handlers and dogs develop your own training methods and exercises that work for you and your dog. Dogs like humans are individuals, and they don't read the books, or watch the videos, so they don't necessarily follow the plan as laid out in them. One of the first rules of dog training is to understanding the dogs behaviour and at least being a bit smarter than the dog. Being smarter than, and understanding the the dog is where most fellas fail.
Good luck and I hope you and your dog do well and enjoy your time together. There is nothing more rewarding than hunting over a good well trained dog that you trained.
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the spank
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I was thinking the same thing when I read that comment on todays standards and I will say that in my opinion force fetching a retriever is a short cut for a poor trainer and I would never put one of my dogs through a force fetch regimen. I want a dog to retrieve because he enjoys it and enjoys getting praised not because he is afraid to suffer the consequences of a failed retrieve. I have seen no shortage of dogs that just shut down and/or had no spirit for the game after being with trainers who force fetch.
Nice to hear someone thinks along my lines of dog training. The chap I bought my first lab from back in the late 70's was invited to run at the Sportsman Show for the Purina Gold Whistle for several years. He and the dog never won the whistle but they usually won there night to move on. He also judged at many field trails. The pup I bought came off a pair of those dogs. He also taught me the basics of retriever training, and some advanced stuff as we went along. He showed me a mock way the technics used for forced fetching training only on the promise I never used them. I agreed with him that if you had to resort to that sort of training then it was time to look for a another dog with keener instincts to hunt and retrieve.
Back in those days there was a fella trialing here in Ont who trained heavily with E collars. His dogs were robots dressed like labs. They would never put a paw out place because they new if they did there eyes were going to light up for the next seconds. It was far better to do what master wanted than suffer the dire consequences. His dogs were emotionless, they seemed to have no spirit, they were zombies that just retrieved as told. None us had any use or respect for the guy as we all know how he trained and treated his dogs. He won trials, his ego was satisfied, but his dogs paid the price.
I trialed because I was interested in the sport and I had a good dog. After I saw what was going on I gave it up, it wasn't for my dog or me. I later joined the hunting and retrieving club which we enjoyed. A much more relaxed and hunting situational orientated organization. In trialing you compete against other handlers and dogs. In the hunting and retrieving club you compete against a set standard for what a dog and handler is expected to do at the various skill levels. After a while that wore thin as I really did not need to travel from central Ont. to Michigan so that some judge from Ohio could certify that my dog was qualified to fetch ducks out of a stone hide in southern Georgian Bay. By that time I was well versed in dog training and just trained my dogs for the job I wanted them to do. My last male never had a duck in his mouth. I purely trained him for pheasant hunting, he was better some days at putting up birds than I was hitting them. And you can get a dirty look from a dog for missing a bird that he just spent time flushing for you. The two of us had a lot of good times. He flushed and retrieved his last bird at 13yrs, old at Tiny Marsh. He spent the vast majority of his hunting carrier at either Pelee Island or Scugog Island. He passed away from a heart attack while going for a walk just shy of his 15th birthday. Brings tears to a fellas eyes just writing it.
beretta boy
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Lots of good info above. Personally, I'll side with those advocating joining a Hunter Retriever Club and abstinence from e-collars, force-fetching & the like.
I too started with James Lamb Free, Cotton Pershall and later took up with a few other's methods , including Wolters. Worked for all of them and for me ... two labs and a chessie !
The gung-ho win at all cost Trials-types can do as they please, but I want a different kind of hunting dog companion than that.
I too started with James Lamb Free, Cotton Pershall and later took up with a few other's methods , including Wolters. Worked for all of them and for me ... two labs and a chessie !
The gung-ho win at all cost Trials-types can do as they please, but I want a different kind of hunting dog companion than that.
