Advice Sought From You Knowledgeable Folks

K

kferguson

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
154   0   0
Our club EESA hosts a military shoot every year. I want to take part but I don't own any milsurp stuff. I am thinking of starting out with surplus bolt action to shoot this match. I like the idea of peep sights, which limits me to SMLE and Enfield P14/P17 as far as I know. I really like the swedish mausers and the 6.5X55, but I don't know how I will do with the open rear sights. I also have a soft spot (one of many, ask my phrenologist:D) for the 7X57. I know this is a lot disjointed, but I want your input on what you would buy, where to look and what I should expect to spend. BTW I am a reloader and would not mind assembling my own ammo.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
kferguson said:
Our club EESA hosts a military shoot every year. I want to take part but I don't own any milsurp stuff. I am thinking of starting out with surplus bolt action to shoot this match. I like the idea of peep sights, which limits me to SMLE and Enfield P14/P17 as far as I know. I really like the swedish mausers and the 6.5X55, but I don't know how I will do with the open rear sights. I also have a soft spot (one of many, ask my phrenologist:D) for the 7X57. I know this is a lot disjointed, but I want your input on what you would buy, where to look and what I should expect to spend. BTW I am a reloader and would not mind assembling my own ammo.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Click to expand...

I shoot that match every year you could also go k11 they are scary accurate. The problem is finding a non worn out lee enfield. a swede in 6.5 is a good choice or a mosin. lots of mosins with good bores around right now I reload for mine and with good ammo the can shoot. Be prepared the guy that wins every year is a killer with his lee enfield.
 
The P14, I find, is an underestimated rifle. I have one (or two, can't remember) and they are a pleasure to use. I find that the image offered by the sights suits me particularly well.

Of course, I am first and foremost a Lee Enfield guy but that's another story ;)

As mg4201 mentions, currently you can get a 91/30 Mosin Nagant for really cheap, with a really nice bore, and a crate of ammo for cheap. I think it's a great way to get started!

Lou
 
If you like peep sights, theres always the M1 garand and the 03a3 springfield, mind you these are going too cost you a chunk of change. I have a No.4 Mk.2 enfield and I would suggest that if you want an accurate millitary rifle with peep sights that is relatively easy to obtain and wont completely break the bank.
 
I am presently a little infatuated with my "1917 Enfield" ;) , but a pretty good-condition unbubbaed "Swedish Mauser" shouldn't not cost too much :) (it's the ammo that gets pricy !....:p )
 
kferguson said:
Our club EESA hosts a military shoot every year. I want to take part but I don't own any milsurp stuff. I am thinking of starting out with surplus bolt action to shoot this match. I like the idea of peep sights, which limits me to SMLE and Enfield P14/P17 as far as I know. I really like the swedish mausers and the 6.5X55, but I don't know how I will do with the open rear sights. I also have a soft spot (one of many, ask my phrenologist:D) for the 7X57. I know this is a lot disjointed, but I want your input on what you would buy, where to look and what I should expect to spend. BTW I am a reloader and would not mind assembling my own ammo.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Click to expand...

If you love Mausers and want a peep sight, maybe look at the FR8?
 
Oh, and if you need a nice Lee Enfield No.4, check out PS Militaria. He has in a bunch of nearly unissued Brit WW2 era No.4's at the moment.
 
Thanks all! Good advice. Claven2, please pardon me while my ignorance hangs out a bit, but what is an FR8?
 
Last edited:
I have all the rifles mentioned above. I am almost 70 and cannot group well with open sights. As a target shooter for over 50 years, peep sights have always been my favourite iron sight.

The FR8 is a wonderful rifle. The front sight srews in and out to zero for elevation and moves left and right with each revolution to zero for wind. The rear sigt is a fixed base with a rotating peep disk for 3 differrent distances (probably 200,300 and 400) but I zero the lowest peep for 100.

It holds zero well and is not tempermental.

A lightly used #4 has a good peep set up and by exchanging the front sight with the right height, you can zero it so the sight settings are correct. They tend to have excellent triggers. If you can find a rack of them, push the muzzle up off the wood with your thumb. You want one that has some down pressure that will snap back into place.

The Garand is the most fun to shoot. Truly superb sights. It clicks in 1 minute clicks for wind and elevation. Makes a nice load ping when empty. Sounds like you just broke something. But they cost about double a #4.


Would a Norc M14 qualify? Cheap to buy. Has similar sights as the Garand. Less tempermental than Garand. Mine have good triggers, out of the box and they group shockingly well. And cheap to buy.

If you can manage open sights, the Swedish Mausers are very accurate and quite cheap to buy.
 
Just to add to a few of the comments so far:

You can't go wrong with a No.4 Mk 2 or Mk 1/2 built (or FTR'd) in the '50s. Get some .312 174gr HPBTs from Trade Ex, neck size Prvi brass (or original Canadian Mk VII brass) and you've got a winning combo that won't break the bank. If your match has a "Mad Minute", Lee Enfields are hard to beat; they feature one of the fastest non-auto actions that ever went to battle!

Speaking of banks, you'll want to keep an M1 Garand in a safety deposit box with their prices going higher and higher on a weekly basis:eek:! They're loads of fun to shoot though (although cleaning autos gets tiring after a while:p).

P-14 and M1917s are winners as well, they have a nice weight to them and sight presentation, but get one fast as their prices are also starting to climb (especially the 17).

I love my M1903 but even with 150gr bullets it has a stiff kick since it's a pretty light rifle and the flat steel buttplate betrays no love! Remember, recoil can sometimes become an issue if your shooting at an all-day event (in summer and wearing a t-shirt, ouch!). Go for the M1903-A3 since the mid-barrel open/peep sights on the earlier WW1 M1903 version can be difficult to use for some.

K-31 and K-11 Schmidt-Rubins are range kings! I know they don't have peep sights, but you have to give one a chance someday! I can't say enough good things about them except one: be sure to test, test and test your reloads before showing-up to a match. These Swiss rifles are extremely finicky about case dimensions and will refuse to fire if everything isn't perfect. K-31s seem to love Redding dies while K-11s like RCBS, take a pass on the Lee dies, they've been hit and miss (pardon the pun) for more than few people!

My $0.02!;)
 
That FR8 sure looks good, now where do I find one in 7X57? Oh, and Lou, since your not sure how many P14's you have, surely you won't miss one if you sell it to me. I'll even take the dustiest one:D
 
Last edited:
Oops, just re-read the FR8 article link. If I read it right, FR7 and FR8 are converted from 7X57 or 8X57 to 7.62 NATO/.308. Is that right? I'm still interested.....sure looks like it kicks at both ends though.
 
kferguson said:
Oops, just re-read the FR8 article link. If I read it right, FR7 and FR8 are converted from 7X57 or 8X57 to 7.62 NATO/.308. Is that right? I'm still interested.....sure looks like it kicks at both ends though.
Click to expand...

FR-7's are from the 1916 Spanish Mausers (1893 "small ring" design)...:yingyang:

FR-8's are from the 1943 Spanish mausers (1898 "large ring" design)...:)

Both were converted to 7.62x51mm from the "x57" Mauser calibres....;).....and the FR-8 has the stronger action....:evil:
 
SAFN 49. Venezuelan contract rifles came in 7x57. Have aperature sights. Nice gas system so you can salvage your brass or turn it off and shoot like a straight pull bolt. Some of the prettiest metal work you'll ever see.

Sent you a PM.
 
Dirtytwo,
Your mention of the SMLE being great for rapid fire reminds me of a story my Dad told me. When he was doing his training in WWII, they were taught a rapid fire or volley fire technique for the SMLE. The method was to use your middle finger as your trigger finger and your index finger was positioned under the bolt knob. Upon firing you were to pop up the bolt knob with the index finger and recoil would then retract the bolt and eject the empty. Obviously timing was everything but he said they got really good at it. Then you just slid the bolt home and repeat as required.. I don't know if this is in any manual of arms, some of you will know for sure. My Dad wasn't one to "draw a long bow", so it is probably true. It would be fun to practise when someone else is buying the ammo:D
 
If you want to practice a LOT, set yourself up with the C.E. Harris "Universal Load".

You CAST your 180-grain slugs out of wheelweight metal (mould is $20 from Lee Precision) and lube them with that Liquid Alox stuff. CHARGE is 13 grains of RED DOT shotgun powder: 538 shots to the pound of powder. Cheap like borschdt! No, is more cheap from borschdt: cheap like oatmeal!

If your rifle is in any kind of condition at all, these should shoot 2 MOA or a bit better. Your MV will be about 1800 ft/sec, so you are slow enough that you can get by wthout even a gas-check..... and recoil will be reduced significantly.

BUFFDOG uses these on gophers out to 200 yards, so they aren't all that bad!

BTW, this same load (180-grain CAST bullet and 13 grains of Red Dot) works fine in MOST fullbore military rifles and performance is similar in most of them.

Right now I'm sitting on 300 pounds of wheelweights and am going after another 400..... and I have several new moulds and a batch of Red Dot on order. Guess what I'm shooting with next Summer?

Hope this helps.
.
 
kferguson said:
Dirtytwo,
Your mention of the SMLE being great for rapid fire reminds me of a story my Dad told me. When he was doing his training in WWII, they were taught a rapid fire or volley fire technique for the SMLE. The method was to use your middle finger as your trigger finger and your index finger was positioned under the bolt knob. Upon firing you were to pop up the bolt knob with the index finger and recoil would then retract the bolt and eject the empty. Obviously timing was everything but he said they got really good at it. Then you just slid the bolt home and repeat as required.. I don't know if this is in any manual of arms, some of you will know for sure. My Dad wasn't one to "draw a long bow", so it is probably true. It would be fun to practise when someone else is buying the ammo:D
Click to expand...

Yup, I've heard of that technique but never tried it for fear of messing-up my Palmolive hands! :D Although I never practice speedy reloads with my No.4, I did manage to crank off 18 shots (14 on the fig 11 @ 100 yds) during the Mad Minute at the last EOHC misurp match; I lost time digging for the two full stripper clips in my front jean pocket when I reloaded - webbing would have been good!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom