Affordable precision (possible semi) Coyote gun? (cheap ammo caliber)

emilio613

emilio613

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
141   0   0
Location
Between 4 walls, in front of a screen.
** please read to the end (I am sure you always do anyway! You guys are super helpful to a newbie young guy like me!), so you get my full drift!

Hi folks, so I am new to this hunting situation (am yet to do my hunters Ed course, but it's coming soon I promise! - didnt' have time this summer).

I would LOVE to help control the coyote population, with some ammo :p

I have a Sako TRG-42 in 300WM....but seriously, I am not going after moose here, and it is OVERKILL. I am not going to be taking out cows, just a small dog-like animal afterall lol

I was just wondering, is there any gun out there that shoots cheap ammunition (so I could practice at the range a lot), but that is highly accurate and realtively inexpensive?

HERE's THE CATCH: I would like a SEMI AUTO, not a bolt gun. (although I will consider a bolt gun).

I was thinking ruger mini30, seeing as we can get surplus FMJ 308 to use at the range, and lots is available in a hunting option (remington, federal, etc).

I also like using 7.62 X 39, but I am not sure if there are any precision rifles using the soviet round? Don't think My CZ858 could be converted into anything long range...does anyone even make a precision barrel for the CZ?
would be cool, and I would definitely take on a project if that was possible.

I am trying to stay away from .223, as most precision .223's (in a semi-auto), are AR's....and those can only be used in the US for hunting!

(I suppose an AR180B-2 could be used, but the problem is .223 ammo, even in bulk, is twice the price of 7.62, if not more).

I will listen to any options, as I am open minded.

Let me know!
 
affordable precision semi-auto is an oxymoron.
so is 7.62x39mm precision.

semi-autos are money sinks - you will have to spend a fortune to get a non-restricted semi to shoot anywhere near as well as a bolt gun. if you are bent on getting a semi (i dont understand why), you can get a $1000 Ruger Mini-14 Target and with luck, tuning and load development it may shoot half as well as a $300 bolt gun with off the shelf ammo.

since you mention ammo 'half as cheap as .223' im assuming you mean surplus 7.62x39mm ammo - in which case youll be lucky to get 4MOA with a Ruger Mini-30 (which is 7.62x39mm, not .308 btw). its also FMJ, which is frowned upon for hunting (and may even be illegal depending on where you live). bulk .223 Winchester JHPs (jacketed hollowpoints) are up to ~60 cents a round now (40 round packs for ~$24), but that is still pretty cheap compared to anything else unless you drop down to rimfire.

the AR-180b's only advantage is that it is non-restricted and looks somewhat like an AR. in every area (scope mounting, accuracy, durability) it is vastly inferior. people spend money on them because they have a hard-on for non-restricted black rifles.
 
manbearpig said:
affordable precision semi-auto is an oxymoron.
so is 7.62x39mm precision.

semi-autos are money sinks - you will have to spend a fortune to get a non-restricted semi to shoot anywhere near as well as a bolt gun. if you are bent on getting a semi (i dont understand why), you can get a $1000 Ruger Mini-14 Target and with luck, tuning and load development it may shoot half as well as a $300 bolt gun with off the shelf ammo.

since you mention ammo 'half as cheap as .223' im assuming you mean surplus 7.62x39mm ammo - in which case youll be lucky to get 4MOA with a Ruger Mini-30 (which is 7.62x39mm, not .308 btw). its also FMJ, which is frowned upon for hunting (and may even be illegal depending on where you live). bulk .223 Winchester JHPs (jacketed hollowpoints) are up to ~60 cents a round now, but that is still pretty cheap compared to anything else unless you drop down to rimfire.

the AR-180b's only advantage is that it is non-restricted and looks somewhat like an AR. in just about every area it is inferior. people spend money on them because they have a hard-on for non-restricted black rifles.
Click to expand...

As brutally honest as that was, I REALLY appreciate this kind of input.

So should I be looking into a cheap Rem. 700 in a common caliber, or what would you recommend? (I am ok with using a bolt gun, I just wanted semi in the case a repeat shot was needed (they're quick buggers from what I have heard).)

As for the 7.62, I did not intend to use it for hunting (surplus). My exact thought was: use surplus at the range, buy a box fo 20 softpoints for hunting.

Seems like the CZ858 may remain as my "range only" non-restricted fun gun...

Here's a question for you:

Is my TRG42 overkill like I stated, for coyotes? or is using 300WM ok?

I seriously am thinking it is WAAAAAAYYYYY too much gun for such prey. Hence why I am looking for something new, more practical for smaller animals.

Let me know, as I like your repsonses in every thread of mine you have posted in before. To the point, well versed, etc :)
 
I'm kinda of the same thinking. What's throwing me off is the word "precision" in the mix...???

FMJs generally are illegal for hunting, certainly here in BC.

FWIW, a super caliber capable of sizzling long range on varmint, absolutely murder on whitetail and muley, noted for precision, very manageable recoil that doesn't wear ya down, with lots of choices in both premium and economy ammo...

25.06 Rem.

Just doesn't get much better, IMHO.
 
Not sure of your reasons for a semi but I find my BLR 22-250 quite handy to carry with fast follow-up shots possible. The Browning levers have detachable mags and in my case seem to be very accurate.
 
sir_springer said:
I'm kinda of the same thinking. What's throwing me off is the word "precision" in the mix...???

FMJs generally are illegal for hunting, certainly here in BC.

FWIW, a super caliber capable of sizzling long range on varmint, absolutely murder on whitetail and muley, noted for precision, very manageable recoil, with lots of choices in both premium and economy ammo...

25.06 Rem.
Click to expand...

Hmmm interesting caliber. See, I have my trg for long range larger game (deer, etc), so I don't think I will be buying anything in a caliber that's similar in use/performance (seeing as the 25.06 is sometimes compared to the 7mm mag, and the 7mm mag is close to the 300WM, at least in the very broadest sense)...

I was thinking, maybe (after reading what manbearpig said) I should go with a rem 700 based bolt rifle in .223. It's not like I will be taking things out at like 600yds anyway, so no need for extreme distance...

SO MANY CHOICES!
 
The most accurate Semi Auto, in my books anyway, is the Browning BAR ( which stands for Browning Automatic Rifle ) which is available in a wide variety
of calibers: from a .243 Win. (an excellent varmint round) to the .338 Win Mag, for the LARGER varmints. From personal experience, I can say that they
are quite accurate and Browning brags that they are as accurate as a bolt action -- but I've never done the comparison myself. All that said, they are also
quite expensive with the low end "Stalkers" starting around $1100. If you are set on getting a semi auto for varmints, then have a look at the Browning BAR in .243 Win.
 
emilio613 said:
Hmmm interesting caliber. See, I have my trg for long range larger game (deer, etc), so I don't think I will be buying anything in a caliber that's similar in use/performance (seeing as the 25.06 is sometimes compared to the 7mm mag, and the 7mm mag is close to the 300WM, at least in the very broadest sense)...

I was thinking, maybe (after reading what manbearpig said) I should go with a rem 700 based bolt rifle in .223. It's not like I will be taking things out at like 600yds anyway, so no need for extreme distance...

SO MANY CHOICES!
Click to expand...

25.06 is a bit of step down from your 300 WSM and the 7mm Mag, especially in the recoil dept.

Range of bullet choices from 75 gr for small critters, to 120 gr for real ones.

In a heavy barrel version this caliber can be capable of spectacular accuracy.

My puppy that I got carried away on fixin' up...

Remington 700 BDL Varminter, with HS Precision stock, Timney trigger, Leupold VX-II 6x18x40, Burris Signature rings on Leupold steel bases, Williams bottom metal, target crown, and metal refinished by Martini & Hagn.

Renewed003.jpg


6 rounds of Fusion 120 gr...

6shots001.jpg
 
sir_springer said:
...with lots of choices in both premium and economy ammo...
25.06 Rem.
Just doesn't get much better, IMHO.
Click to expand...

.25-06 is certainly not what id consider cheap ammo, and there is not a large selection off the shelf either.
currently unless i reload, i have two choices of off-the-shelf ammo in .25-06: 90gr or 120gr Winchester PEP (positive expanding point - a glorified hollowpoint), at $1.30-1.50 per round. compare this to ~60 cents a round for .223.
granted hits on varmints with .25-06 are far more impressive - which is actually why i switched from .223 to .25-06. groundhogs are getting scarce and i wanted a more devastating round (may as well make them count) and didnt care about ammo cost, but if he wants pelts from the coyotes i dont think he wants to destroy half the animal.

Remington 700s are decent guns, i have three of them. but they are expensive for what they are. if you buy one, look into their less expensive SPS line and perhaps pick up a take-off HS Precision stock for ~$250 on the EE and sell the SPS stock. the 700 is a solid platform, later on youll always have the option of rebarreling with a match barrel. the possibilities with a 700 action are pretty much endless and only limited by your wallet.

but honestly if you want the best bang for your buck look at a Stevens 200 (i think Frontier Firearms has them on sale right now in .223 for $325) or the Marlin XS7. both of these will be as accurate - or more accurate - than an out of the box Remington 700, and will cost nearly half as much - which will leave you money for better glass.

700q.jpg

this is my .25-06 Remington 700. its in an HS Precision Sendero stock, Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x50mm, Leupold QRW rings on a Ken Farrel 20MOA rail.
ive left it with the stock barrel for now, and had plans on rebarreling it with a match barrel. however i think now i will be rebarreling it to something other than .25-06 simply because i dont reload and .25-06 ammo availability is a PITA.
...but .25-06 is experiencing something of a resurgence now with several manufacturers offering new guns chambered in it, so who knows? if i can go to a store and pick up a box of .25-06 for the same price as .30-06 and .270 then i might keep it as a .25-06. right now, despite the fact that its the same case and a cheaper bullet, .25-06 costs $28.50 for non-premium ammo while .30-06 and .270 are $17.50 a box, which is absolutely ridiculous :rolleyes:

also consider .243 -- nearly the performance of .25-06 but much cheaper ammo thats available everywhere, and in a short action.
 
Last edited:
if ur lookin 4 semi auto, with cheep avalable ammo non res and accurate id go with the HK sl8. the round isnt overkill for ur means and hit targets out to 350m
 
manbearpig said:
.25-06 is certainly not what id consider cheap ammo, and there is not a large selection off the shelf either.
currently if i dont reload, i have two choices in .25-06 ammo: 90gr or 120gr Winchester PEP (positive expanding point - a glorified hollowpoint), at $1.30 per round. compare this to ~60 cents a round for .223.
granted the kills with .25-06 are far more impressive: i actually switched from .223 to .25-06 because groundhogs are getting scarce and i wanted a more devastating round (may as well make them count), but if he wants pelts from the coyotes i dont think he wants to destroy half the animal.

Remington 700s are decent guns, i have three of them. but they are expensive for what they are. if you buy one, look into their less expensive SPS line and perhaps pick up a take-off HS Precision stock for ~$250 on the EE and sell the SPS stock. its a great platform and later on you have the option of rebarreling with a match barrel.
but honestly if you want the best bang for your buck look at a Stevens 200 (i think Frontier Firearms has them on sale right now in .223 for $325) or the Marlin XS7. both of these will be as accurate - or more accurate - than an out of the box Remington 700, and will cost nearly half as much - which will leave you money for better glass.
Click to expand...

Well, cheap compared to ammo for my 300 WM. :)

I'd suggest a step up from the Stevens to a heavy barreled Savage. Savage rifles offer up some extremely serious accuracy, along with a very good trigger, for a darn decent price.

Own two Remington 700s myself. Personally, won't be owing any more 'em. Not terribly impressed.
 
460v said:
reload for that 300mag and get good with it
Click to expand...

I would.... but I don't know exactly how much a 300WM reloading kit would cost (like dies, presses, all the standard equipment. I have nothing because I am just getting started...I bought the TRG42 since it was a good deal, otherwise I would have gone cheaper - just stating that, so you don't make fun of me for jumping right into the deep end lol).

Also, I don't think I want to rip half the animal and pelt away lol.

Sir_Springer and Manbearpig:

What about buying a rifle something like what you guys suggested, but in .243 Win?

I think keeping the pelt would be nice, even if I don't use it, maybe someone would like it for crafts, or sell it off in pieces for fly tying (I always need gas/beer money haha). So I would like to avoid blasting half the carcass away.... another reason for avoiding using my 300 winmag.

As for the HK SL8 as suggested by MOPP44, it's a nice rifle, and I was considering it....but would you like to pay for it on my behalf :D haha (it's like 1900 for a used one; if I could somehow get it cheaper, or in a trade for something of mine, then I would do it. It would be ideal for my means, like you said.)

The ONE thing I have against using .223, is that wind will knock that bullet around like there's no tomorrow...

hence why I asked about using the .243, since it is a necked down 308.
 
sir_springer said:
Well, cheap compared to ammo for my 300 WM. :)

I'd suggest a step up from the Stevens to a heavy barreled Savage. Savage rifles offer up some extremely serious accuracy, along with a very good trigger, for a darn decent price.

Own two Remington 700s myself. Personally, won't be owing any more 'em. Not terribly impressed.
Click to expand...

Savage huh? Which ones would you recommend, and maybe in a .243 win? Like, the 12FP?
 
a heavy barrel's main advantage is less shot stringing under high volume fire.
if you are going to be walking with the gun, shooting coyotes, ontario groundhogs, etc then get a standard or medium contour barrel since a heavy barrel will give you few advantages, and a huge disadvantage in making the gun a PITA to carry.

if you are out west and will be shooting gophers, or will be spending most of your time shooting from one spot, definitely get a heavy barrel.

in ontario at least, we are not lucky enough to require a heavy barrel for varmint hunting. i envy you guys out west who actually have to worry about overheating barrels from shooting varmints :(


http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=496858
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503020
 
manbearpig said:
a heavy barrel's main advantage is less shot stringing under high volume fire.
if you are going to be walking with the gun, shooting coyotes, ontario groundhogs, etc then get a standard or medium contour barrel since a heavy barrel will give you few advantages, and a huge disadvantage in making the gun a PITA to carry.

if you are out west and will be shooting gophers, or will be spending most of your time shooting from one spot, definitely get a heavy barrel.

in ontario at least, we are not lucky enough to require a heavy barrel for varmint hunting. i envy you guys out west who actually have to worry about overheating barrels from shooting varmints :(


http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=496858
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503020
Click to expand...

I am in Ontario. I wonder if you are local to me. if you don't want to give away your location, you can PM me. If you were from where I am, maybe you could teach me a thing or two sometime in the future. :)

Also, if I get a .243, is that any good for Deer? or undersized? I was looking at savages website....

the 10 XP I think series looks intriguing (the camo ones that can also be bought with a scope package).
 
.243 is a good choice, too. Same applies as the 25.06.

However, .243 maxes out at 100 gr bullets, while the 25.06 handles up to 120s. This, and better long range punch @ 200 to 300 yds, IMHO, makes the 25.06 a more versatile caliber.

I don't think the 25.06 will be any tougher on pelts than the .243...or for that matter, even the .223. Damage generally is related to fragmentation, to which I think a reasonable quality .257 bullet should be less prone.

Looking through Wholesale Sports catalogue right now. See Fusion/Federal at about $29.00/box 20, which is about on par with .243 and .308.
 
Many swear by the .243 for deer. Out in Ontario, where I hear the deer are much, much smaller than out here in the west :) would be a great choice.

I've been reading rifle magazines almost religiously for about 3 years. And by far for the most part Savage is getting rave reviews, both for remarkable accuracy, as well as industry leading innovation. While not considered fancy or pretty by any stretch, for the money...or lack there of...they're pretty tough to beat. Their Accu-Trigger literally turned the industry on its collective ear, and got the rest of 'em to finally start putting decent triggers on their product. A good, crisp trigger is absolutely imperative to shooting tight groups and long range accuracy! Now they've come up with this new stock bedding system that's probably going to take this aspect to the next level as well. And they do all this, and still offer up rifles at astonishingly competitive pricing.

If you want a real shooter, without breaking the bank, Savage is certainly worth considering.

...or a Tikka T3!

Before I fixed up my Rem. 25.06, I packed it deer hunting...all ten or so pounds of it, plus scope, etc...for about 15 seasons. Others thought I was nuts, but it didn't bother me a bit. Of course, I was younger then, too. :( But I never, ever fretted how it was going to shoot on any given day. Once went 8 straight one shot kills (over several seasons) on whitetails and muleys with it. Pretty much all of 'em DRT.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom