Affordable precision (possible semi) Coyote gun? (cheap ammo caliber)

sir_springer said:
Many swear by the .243 for deer. Out in Ontario, where I hear the deer are much, much smaller than out here in the west :) would be a great choice.

I've been reading rifle magazines almost religiously for about 3 years. And by far for the most part Savage is getting rave reviews, both for remarkable accuracy, as well as industry leading innovation. While not considered fancy or pretty by any stretch, for the money...or lack there of...they're pretty tough to beat. Their Accu-Trigger literally turned the industry on its collective ear, and got the rest of 'em to finally start putting decent triggers on their product. A good, crisp trigger is absolutely imperative to shooting tight groups and long range accuracy! Now they've come up with this new stock bedding system that's probably going to take this aspect to the next level as well. And they do all this, and still offer up rifles at astonishingly competitive pricing.

If you want a real shooter, without breaking the bank, Savage is certainly worth considering.

...or a Tikka T3!

Before I fixed up my Rem. 25.06, I packed it deer hunting...all ten or so pounds of it, plus scope, etc...for about 15 seasons. Others thought I was nuts, but it didn't bother me a bit. Of course, I was younger then, too. :( But I never, ever fretted how it was going to shoot on any given day. Once went 8 straight one shot kills (over several seasons) on whitetails and muleys with it. Pretty much all of 'em DRT.
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I am assuming the T3 is a little bit more $$$ than the savage 10Xp series. We will see what I do. My one concern is that hunting deer in thick brush or a forest, my coyote/deergun will become useless due to the optics limiting my view (open sights, versus a scope). This is why I was wondering (in my other thread), if my cz 858 could be converted into a coyote and deer gun. it would be ideal for short range (50yds) shots in brush/forest, and if I could mount a scope, long range too! (but the barrel would need to be replaced for sure... )
 
Dont really need to worry about it. Open sights are good for close country, but a decent scope with a wider range of magnification should work well too (my bushnell 8500 elite 2.5x-16x works for nearly everything i can shoot out here)
 
33hoffman said:
Dont really need to worry about it. Open sights are good for close country, but a decent scope with a wider range of magnification should work well too (my bushnell 8500 elite 2.5x-16x works for nearly everything i can shoot out here)
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Ah Ok, so I should simply get a scope that has a magnification range that varies from really low settings (2 or 2.5) and then up to what I need, like the mid teens.

Ideally I would love a 1X to like... 14X. I don't need more than that, but I don't think that exists! haha

EDIT*** apparently a 1-10X40 exists. March Scopes of down under (Australia).
 
How about a Stevens 200 in .223, they shoot like a damn out of the box and cost very little. I use 40 gr Hornady V-Max, there is an entry hole, no exit hole and the pelt is saleable.
 
with regards to .243 vs .25-06: the only real disadvantage of the .25-06 is off the shelf ammo cost.
if you reload, this disadvantage goes away.

emilio613 said:
I am assuming the T3 is a little bit more $$$ than the savage 10Xp series. We will see what I do. My one concern is that hunting deer in thick brush or a forest, my coyote/deergun will become useless due to the optics limiting my view (open sights, versus a scope). This is why I was wondering (in my other thread), if my cz 858 could be converted into a coyote and deer gun. it would be ideal for short range (50yds) shots in brush/forest, and if I could mount a scope, long range too! (but the barrel would need to be replaced for sure... )
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the T3 is $400 worth of gun being sold for $900+, perpetuated by a legion of fanboys who think that its the only accurate factory gun and that accuracy is the only thing that matters in a rifle.

as for hunting in brush - you dont need to put a high-power 50mm scope on your rifle. you can get away with a lower powered scope with a larger field of view. look for something that has a low bottom end - such as 1.5 or 2x. the 50mm scope i have on my .25-06 tips off with quick-release rings and can be replaced with a lower power, lightweight scope.

there are many good scopes out there. the less money you squander on an overpriced rifle the more you can spend on good glass and mounts. Leupold scopes have excellent lifetime warranties and the money you spend on one will never be wasted - a decade or two from now the scope will still be on one rifle or another.

unfortunately there are not a lot of choices in a good bang-for-your-buck factory rifle in a varmint caliber with decent irons. youd likely have to have a gunsmith add them. personally i would just get a quality scope with a range suitable for all your hunting conditions - or possibly even one varmint, one fast low-power scope (perhaps fixed power). if you get a picatinny rail mount you can even use a compact red dot as a second option.
 
kens said:
How about a Stevens 200 in .223, they shoot like a damn out of the box and cost very little. I use 40 gr Hornady V-Max, there is an entry hole, no exit hole and the pelt is saleable.
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I think I might want a .243, just for the sake of not having the projectile be tossed around too much on a windy day. That's just my opinion though...as for the rifle, I think as long as it shoots and is cheap, I would be happy with a stevens. I DO want the accutrigger system, so maybe a cheaper savage.

Also, if i buy one, I would like it used, preferablly a little scuffed up, and with a scope. Why? So I can buy it dirt cheap, and paint it with that Krylon camo paint I have laying around...that I haven't gotten to use yet! haha (that way i don't feel guilty about ruining a new rifle...a scuffed one needs a paint job anyway!).
 
manbearpig said:
the only disadvantage to the .25-06 is off the shelf ammo cost.
if you reload, this disadvantage goes away.



the T3 is $400 worth of gun being sold for $900+, perpetuated by a legion of fanboys who think that its the only accurate factory gun and that accuracy is the only thing that matters in a rifle.

as for hunting in brush - you dont need to put a high-power 50mm scope on your rifle. you can get away with a lower powered scope with a larger field of view. look for something that has a low bottom end - such as 1.5 or 2x. the 50mm scope i have on my .25-06 tips off with quick-release rings and can be replaced with a lower power, lightweight scope.

there are many good scopes out there. the less money you squander on an overpriced rifle the more you can spend on good glass and mounts. Leupold scopes have excellent lifetime warranties and the money you spend on one will never be wasted - a decade or two from now the scope will still be on one rifle or another.

unfortunately there are not a lot of choices in a good bang-for-your-buck factory rifle in a varmint caliber with decent irons. youd likely have to have a gunsmith add them. personally i would just get a quality scope with a range suitable for all your hunting conditions - or possibly even one varmint, one fast low-power scope (perhaps fixed power). if you get a picatinny rail mount you can even use a compact red dot as a second option.
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I like the idea of the picatinny mount and using a low power and red dot options... may do that. :)
 
As far as optics go, I've got a Leupold VX-III 4.5x14x40 atop my 300 WM. Good enough scope for sure.

But couple weeks ago I helped sight in my son-in-law's new Sako A7 .270 WSM. He bought a Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 for it. Wonderfully clear and sharp! Paid $499 for the glass.

Couldn't help but think that a good 3x9x40, at the end of the day, is probably about as much, and as versatile, scope as anyone needs for hunting...save for picking off gophers at 300 + yards and the like.

He said he wanted to keep it simple and compact, and reasonable on his bank account. When we were done at the range, I couldn't dispute his sensibility.

Right now Wholesale Sports apparently has a sale on Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9x40 scopes, under $200! These are darn good scopes (I've owned a number of Elite 3000/3200s), and for that kinda dough, extremely tough to beat!

That said...

I will still admit that I've lusted after one of those Elite 6500 scopes for some time now. ;)
 
sir_springer said:
As far as optics go, I've got a Leupold VX-III 4.5x14x40 atop my 300 WM. Good enough scope for sure.

But couple weeks ago I helped sight in my son-in-law's new Sako A7 .270 WSM. He bought a Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 for it. Wonderfully clear and sharp! Paid $499 for the glass.

Couldn't help but think that a good 3x9x40, at the end of the day, is probably about as much, and as versatile, scope as anyone needs for hunting...save for picking off gophers at 300 + yards and the like.

He said he wanted to keep it simple and compact, and reasonable on his bank account. When we were done at the range, I couldn't dispute his sensibility.

Right now Wholesale Sports apparently has a sale on Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9x40 scopes, under $200! These are darn good scopes (I've owned a number of Elite 3000/3200s), and for that kinda dough, extremely tough to beat!

That said...

I will still admit that I've lusted after one of those Elite 6500 scopes for some time now. ;)
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haha I have as well! I want the 6500 Tactical Elite... I have a 4200 4-16X atop my TRG now, but its not the tactical :( (I want those KNOBS! hah) Good scope, very clear and bright.

What I was thinking was, getting a cheap bolt in .243,making sure it has dovetails or whatnot, and then having a) a scope for the 'yotes, and b) a cheap 1X red dot for the bush/close range. (heck, even like the $40 tasco).
 
emilio613 said:
I think I might want a .243, just for the sake of not having the projectile be tossed around too much on a windy day.
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under 300 yards the difference in ballistics (bullet drop, wind drift) between a .223 and .243 are pretty insignificant. heres a ballistics chart showing the difference between a .223 55gr hollowpoint and a .243 75gr hollowpoint. you can visit the hornady site and do your own ballistics comparisons, for simplicity i used data from their bullets, off the shelf ammo will vary a bit.

223vs243.gif


both will kill any varmint. .243 has the advantage of being an ideal deer cartridge, but the disadvantage of more expensive ammo and more recoil so you wont see your hits in the scope.
according to many experienced shooters here, with good shot placement .223 can be used for deer if you reload with premium bullets. however i doubt that anyone would consider .223 'ideal' for deer.
 
Put the 3x9 scope on first, and I suspect you'll never get around to the 1x or Aimpoint for the "bush". 3x works fine in close quarters. In fact it can come in real handy when you're trying to insure antlers on the deer in your sights, or locate that gap between two trees to place a round in the kill zone on an otherwise hard to sort out buck.
 
manbearpig said:
under 300 yards the difference in ballistics (bullet drop, wind drift) between a .223 and .243 are pretty insignificant. heres a ballistics chart showing the difference between a .223 55gr hollowpoint and a .243 75gr hollowpoint. you can visit the hornady site and do your own ballistics comparisons, for simplicity i used data from their bullets, off the shelf ammo will vary a bit.

223vs243.gif


both will kill any varmint. .243 has the advantage of being an ideal deer cartridge, but the disadvantage of more expensive ammo and more recoil so you wont see your hits in the scope.
according to many experienced shooters here, with good shot placement .223 can be used for deer if you reload with premium bullets. however i doubt that anyone would consider .223 'ideal' for deer.
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Very intriguing data. Seeing as muzzle fps is almost the same in both, it's I suppose a matter of preference. The fact that the 243 is better for deer has the advantage, but the 223 is available for practice in surplus ammo versions..... I am considering the ammo price as the higher advantage...I have my TRG for deer in big fields, however in the brush, maybe the 243 would be better. Hence my dilemma. If I purchase a .223, I can buy 500 rds (Split a crate with someone, or even less, like 250 if split 4 ways), and pratice a bit. Then I can get sooft points for yotes. However, It would not be a good rifle for deer, and I would think having it setup with a 1X red dot would be perfect for forest situations.

The 243 has costlier ammo, and more recoil (not as much support as the 223 either, in terms of practice ammo). However, its better for deer (neckeddown 308). Grrrrrr I hate these decisions.

I will need to take a lot of time to think this over. No rush .... yet.
 
IMHO if you want this primarily for coyote/varmints, and you already have a 300WM it would make more sense to get the .223.
you can always just use the 300WM for deer.

besides, everyone needs at least one .22LR and .223.

Seeing as muzzle fps is almost the same in both, it's I suppose a matter of preference.
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the energy is quite different - but for groundhogs, coyote, etc they are going to be dead regardless.

dead is dead, but the .243 kills will be more dramatic. for pests like groundhogs this is an advantage, for keeping the pelts on coyotes it is a disadvantage.
 
sir_springer said:
Just looked up a Sako TRG...

http://www.sako.fi/sakotrgmodels.php?trg42

Probably not your ideal rifle for packing after deer and the like, woods wise!

That's quite the rig! Does it shoot like it looks???
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Apparently so! However, it is not even broken in yet, only fired 3 times. Why? Because the guy I was buying 3 boxes of ammo from, here on CGN, turned out to be a f*cking scammer. $75 is a lot to a young shooter, and now it's gone ($75 I could have put towards a rail or something on my coyote rifle). This guy talked all nice, and was friendly, and then f*cked me like a prison b*tch. I hate scammers, sorry I am venting.

But yes, it shoots beautifully according to the last owner (he only shot it 3 times). I can't wait to get it to the range. I am supposed to get a few rounds and some sandbags from a local here this week, super nice guy who is willing to help me out.

The .223 is a good option manbearpig, however, like sir_springer stated...taking that TRG into the woods? lol... that's no fun; super heavy. That's why the .243 would be good to have for brush.

Then again, I could maybe just use the CZ858 in short brush, with soft points, if I really wanted to. (open sights).

Dammit, now I am mad at that scammer for taking my money and not providing me with 3 boxes of ammo..good ammo too!

(also it didn't seem like a "too good to be true" deal. It seemed like he just wanted to clear out what he had left at a fair price....yea...right).
 
emilio613 said:
The .223 is a good option manbearpig, however, like sir_springer stated...taking that TRG into the woods? lol... that's no fun; super heavy. That's why the .243 would be good to have for brush.
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for the price of one basic T3 you could buy two Marlin XS7s, and have at least as good accuracy and less plastic parts. a .223 and a .308, for example.

decide how often you will be shooting varmints, and how often you will be shooting deer. sometimes its better to buy two different ideal rifles than it is to try and find one to fit two different roles.
 
Both of you are right. (Jake and Manbearpig). I should get a used entry level with an adjustable trigger in .223, and a decent used Bushnell scope. Cheap package, I can paint it as I like, and have fun!

Now.... what do I have to sell to make some money to buy this setup! lol
 
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