After a .22LR, what's my next step ?

N

Noltz

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Like a good new shooter, I picked up a .22LR to get started with, a Remington 597. Lots of rounds later I'm very comfortable with the rifle and am finding it's limits. @ 50 yards it's quite fun (1" on good days), but at 100 the drop-off is incredible, and it's useless at 200 yards. Crappy optics prevent me from getting tighter at 50 yards, and I'm not sure bulk .22 ammo will get much tighter anyway. There's always a few flyers.

  • Budget is $700-1000, and that needs to include the glass.
  • Moderate recoil.
  • Shooting 200 yards, farther when I can find the space to do it.
  • Shooting costs are a factor, I'm not spending $1 a shot yet.
  • I am not reloading at this time

I've read good reviews on Remington 700's, Savage's with Accutriggers, And Tikka's. So I put the question to the masses; What's next and why?
 
Go with a .223 or a .308 in any of the three brands you mentioned. .223 will be less expensive and have less recoil. Ammunition is readily available for both calibers, so you wouldn't need to reload to begin with.
 
Whatever brand you choose, I think .223 should be the cartridge. With your budget, I think a Stevens 200 with decent glass is a good place to start into centerfire.


Mark
 
on the other hand what do YOU want to do ?- big game, target shoot, or whatever- with the 223 , you have a minimal deer rifle/maybe a half decent varminter- with the 308 and the right bullet weight , YOU call the tune, not the rifle- sure it's more expensive, but you've also got many more options- plus you can shoot surplus if you're really cheap-
 
Can't go wrong with a R700 SPS varmint 26" ($545 at Bass Pro, but sponsors above are a better choice) or SPS tactical 20" ($659 at SFRC above) in .223 if you're looking for a heavy barrel topped with a Bushnell 10x40mm Elite (around $200-$250). keeps you pretty close to budget and pretty upgradeable if you so wish down the line. I think Tomochan had a good review on the SPS Tactical in .308. Would be a good read for you.

The Savage 10 Precision Carbine is a good choice as well, saw a guys target at the range a few weeks ago with 5 shots making one slightly larger hole at 100 yds.

I personally have a .223 R700 5R milspec and am completely pleased with it. But a little higher than your budget.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=664199
 
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Your budget for rifle and ammo limits you to 223. Best deal for 308 ammo is 50c a pop. 7.62x39 ammo is cheap.
 
Noltz said:
Like a good new shooter, I picked up a .22LR to get started with, a Remington 597. Lots of rounds later I'm very comfortable with the rifle and am finding it's limits. @ 50 yards it's quite fun (1" on good days), but at 100 the drop-off is incredible, and it's useless at 200 yards. Crappy optics prevent me from getting tighter at 50 yards, and I'm not sure bulk .22 ammo will get much tighter anyway. There's always a few flyers.

  • Budget is $700-1000, and that needs to include the glass.
  • Moderate recoil.
  • Shooting 200 yards, farther when I can find the space to do it.
  • Shooting costs are a factor, I'm not spending $1 a shot yet.
  • I am not reloading at this time

I've read good reviews on Remington 700's, Savage's with Accutriggers, And Tikka's. So I put the question to the masses; What's next and why?
Click to expand...

I can't say enough about my Tikka T3 Lite in .223. I shoot in your area (Hamilton) and would be happy to let you try it. Pm me if interested
 
The only precision cartridge I can think of that costs less than $1 per shot would be the .223. About 50 cents a shot if you use the Remington government surplus stuff. They sell it in bulk, 200 rounds for $100.

You could look at the CZ 527 series of rifles. They're a little expensive but well worth the money. They can cost around $800 but you get a rifle that is famous for its accuracy and its craftsmanship. If you put something like a Nikon Pro Staff scope on which it’s a pretty decent scope for $200 and that meets your $1000 maximum budget range.

You could also look at the Ruger M77 Hawkeye. They're about the same price as the CZ 527 at around $800 so again with a Nikon Pro Staff that meets your maximum budget.

A good one to mention is the Savage Model 25. It’s a sweet little varmint rifle with a detachable magazine and they come with the accu-trigger. These little rifles are a good price and they look pretty cool in my opinion. I really like the lightweight laminate wood model. They call it lightweight but the rifle is still 8lbs but that's good if all you want it a precision rifle. They sell for around $500 - $600. That leaves a lot of room for a really nice scope. I really like Nikon scopes, I think they are the best value out there and a $400 Nikon Buckmaster is a pretty sweet scope. At $600 + $400 that meets your maximum budget or you could get a Nikon Pro Staff for $200 so $600 + $200 that meets close to your minimum budget.

The Savage and Weatherby Package rifles are a pretty good choice to meet your minimum budget or even cheaper. My brother owns a Savage Model 11 package rifle and it’s a pretty good deal. I don't really like the scope they give you with it but it works. The Savage or Weatherby Package rifles will cost anywhere from $500 - $700. The Savage includes a sling well the Weatherby includes a hard case.

I'm sure there are plenty of Remington 700's out there you could look at but I’m not to familiar with the Remington 700 so I couldn't tell you much. Everyone who gets a Remington 700 SPS seems to be pretty happy with it.

So these are my recommendations to take a look at. You don't have to use a Nikon scope I just used Nikon as an example because I'm familiar with Nikon products. You could use any other scope you are familiar with just don't lower yourself to a Chinese scope. They can be as clear as a foggy day when looking at something 400 meters away. They can however, work pretty good for something upclose like 100 - 200 meters away.
 
You posted in the precision Rifle section so I would assume that you are interested in precision rifle shooting.

Perhaps you could consider a better optic for your rifle. 22 LR is relatively slow and has a very poor ballistic coefficient. This would be a disadvantage to hunting and just about everything else except learning to shoot at extended range with only a short range available.

Shooting a 22 at 100 yards is like shooting a 308 out to 300 yards and shooting it at 300 yards it has similar ballistics to a 308 at 1000 yards.

toz8.jpg


A good scope can be used on a centerfire rifle, and shooting and condition reading skills are transferable.

I shoot my toz 22 often as my local range is only 300 Meters. My F-class gun only comes out for load development, some 300 meter group shooting, and the occasional match.

PS: You do not need to stick a Sightron III 8x32x56 on a 99$ Toz 8 but it helps.
 
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Many people recommend getting a 22 to learn to shoot. You can't learn to reload with a 22 and reloading is at least half the battle.

Of course there are merits to learning with a 22 but for someone who wants to learn to shoot a centre fire there is no substitute.
 
I'm not in exactly the same boat, but I wish to broaden my horizons as it pertains to precision shooting: My first consideration at this point is a 223, because ammunition is easily obtained although I have spent more time with the somewhat lighter 222 rem, which seems to be going the way of the dodo because of more popular 223 and 22-250. My experiences have been quite limited to plinking Perrier bottles with an old 222 with primitive low powered scope out to 200 yards, groundhogs to around 100-150 yards. Deer out to 175 yards with an old pump action in 270win, is not a consistent, clean one shot immediate death, and that disappoints. Naturally I shoot 22LR more, but the semi-auto and old single shot sporting arms leave much to be improved in terms of fit, smooth triggers etc. so that combined with my limited experience makes for poor groups (note always consistent) of 3/4 - 1" around 50 yards: Minute of squirrel, but sad if I were to try match qualifying.

I've been considering a model 700 in 223 from SFRC but I'd like to become more proficient at long ranges with a target 22LR. Same physical lessons, but enormously cheaper and can be learned in 150 yards.

I am only reiterating what others have said when asking your intended purpose: A 223 "can" be used for deer hunting, but is not an ideal choice especially considering almost all ammunition available is made for varmints.
 
Wendell said:
RUGER 10-22 TACTICAL RAPID FIRE

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxENqNnQILE>
Click to expand...

Yep, I could drop lead on that 200 yard gong once I had my elevation, but I won't be happy with lobbing shots into a pie plate.

I feel my next challenge should be consistant 2" groups at 200 yards. It's my belief that this can be done with <$1000 kit. Once I'm there, and maybe down into 1" groups, I'll look at reloading my own and stretching out. I was uncomfortable with the recoil of a Savage Axis 30-06 (completely stock however). Personal bias, I love the look of the triangular barreled Remington 700's. Upgrades are possible later, but there's a little bit of tax money coming back and I'd like a platform that I can grow into.

I shoot at Silverdale, where the longest range is 200 yards. Plus I can't shoot gong with rimfire, so another advantage to .223.

Edit: Just to reiterate; I am not hunting with this rifle. It MAY be used later for varmet control at the cottage but at this moment I have no intentions of putting holes in anything but paper (not that there's anything wrong with that :))
 
You can improve just about any rifle you care to.

.223 is your best option for center fire, it's cheap to buy and reload. The merits of Savage and Remington is it will be easier to upgrade if and when you decide to do it, more stuff on the market and more importantly (if your impatient) on the shelves. Also Savage has a floating bolt (not the 25 though), it will save some money if you decide to put a match barrel on it at a later date.

My $.02 on the rifle it self. The bolt actions I've owned are a Savage 12 LRVP, 10 FP, and 25 in .223 Rem. A Savage 111 in 7mm Mag. A Stevens 200 in 300 WM (may it rest in peace). A Sako Carbine in .270 Win. A Tikka Varmint in .222 Rem. A Tikka Sporter .308 Norma Mag. A Rem 700 SPS Tactical in .223 Rem and another 700 but model escapes me, also in .223 Rem. Finally a BSA P-14 in .303 Br. They were all well made, well all but the 10 FP, but that had a bum barrel and I liked everything else about it though. Savage was a treat to deal with in solving the problem (If they keep the cust service as is I'll never have reservations about buying a Savage). All the rifles I've handloaded for could shoot under an inch at 100 yds. The few I didn't load for in a serious way still hit what I was aiming at. I'd pass on the Savage 25. It had a really nice finnish but something about working the action made me nervous. The SPS Tac felt like it had sand in the action from the parkerizing. I still have it and it's becoming nice and smooth. It's also not a bad shooter, it's been grouping under an inch with 3-4 of 5 shots clustering under 0.5" at 100 yds.

If I was going to buy another today on your budget. I'd start with a Savage 12 FCV, or 10 FP-SR in .223 Rem. A Remington 700 SPS Varmint or Tactical in .223 Rem would work as well. Some will suggest a 1 in 7 or 8 twist barrel, not that it will fit in your budget, but 1 in 9 will serve you better to start. If you could spend a few hundred more on the rifle ($1100-1200 total cost) you could pick between some of the nicer stocks available on the standard Savage 10/Remington 700 action.

The glass, I have a little less experiance with. I really like my Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24X40 but that will push you over budget by $200-300. I also have a 3200 3-9X50 which is not bad but the duplex retical and turrets make it less than ideal for long range shooting. I'm thinking of getting a fixed 10X Elite for the day I get the 30" match tube on my 111. I have seen lots of comments about it being an excellent choice if your budget is tight and the rifle is only going to see range duty.

The final peice in the puzzel is handloading. If you don't handload your never going to see the best your rifle can shoot. The Tikka .222 I had couldn't shoot factory ammo. It shot over an inch with everything I feed it. The right handload and it would shoot 0.25" at 100 yds.
 
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