After Action Report: My issued Browning in Afghanistan

lcpaintballer said:
What sidearm is the CF thinking about getting. I was talking to MP down in Victoria a while ago and he said the navy just got new SIG's. Could it be possible that the CF is going to SIG?

Not dissing SIG owners, just wondering.
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Sig has manged to get the smaller orders for the pilots, MP's, Navy boarding parties and the ski team. It would be nice if they won an order to slowly replace the BHP, but even new BHP's would be nice or a more likely a polymer framed pistol.
 
Nice insight hoodie..... remember to keep your head down over there :D

What most people don't realize is that the Browning's in Canadian service were all made in the mid 1940's.. including magazines.... Like everything springs weaken and weren't made of the modern steels of today. Unfortunately when the pistols came out of storage, I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the springs weren't replaced in anything.

Contrary to popular belief I believe that Browning's Hi-Power is a very capable pistol. The caliber may be anemic by today's standards and the advent of body armour in today's battlefield also isn't a plus for 9mm.
And as hoodie mentioned ... any pistol (or rifle for that matter) in desert conditions need constant attention to function properly.

just my 2 cents......
 
This very reason

This is the very reason I never pursued a career in the Canadian military past reserves. The kit during my time was getting to be ancient. If we cannot supply our people to properly complete the task, then we shouldn't be there.

The hi-power is still a capable piece of issue, however it should have been updated as with the rest of the kit.

Having professional soldiers having to purchase their own equipment because issued kit is unreliable is pathetic.

Hopefully they will go to the Sig as a new sidearm.

Sorry about making your informed post into my personal rant.

A big thanks for your service as well
 
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albertacoyotecaller said:
Having professional soldiers having to purchase their own equipment because issued kit is unreliable is pathetic.
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Brits and Americans have been allowing their soldiers to do it for years. Look closely at photos from the Falklands. Often you won't see two soldiers dressed alike.....
 
Dragoon

I am not saying that these guys should not be able to aquire or bring to theatre some personal equipment but when they are not properly supplied initially, that is the problem.
 
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Garand said:
HKfan, when its is ISSUED to you by the military and you modify it mechanically, disciplinary action can be taken against you. It's that simple.
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he wasn't talking about modifying anything issued.
 
Dragoon said:
Brits and Americans have been allowing their soldiers to do it for years. Look closely at photos from the Falklands. Often you won't see two soldiers dressed alike.....
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So true. I don't understand why its still not so in the CF. I’m not in anymore but I still go mad every time I here how a fleece "jacket" is not an outer garment. :mad: Yet I see in Ottawa everyday dozens of overweight air force wogs in CADPAT complete wearing sky blue wool caps and yet somehow that's a more acceptable look??? :bangHead: The problem with the military is that by the time you're in a rank to change things your so institutionalized by the system you have forgotten what you wanted to change.:runaway: :confused: ;)

Great review Hoddie, glad you made it work for you and came home safe.:)
 
Austen said:
Thanks for your post Hoddie!

I appreciate all our Armed Forces do on behalf of Canada and have a huge amount of respect for the professionalism of our Forces. I have been disgusted for many, many years at the detoriation of the equipment our people need to do their job. I'm sorry you had to spend your hard earned money to properly equip yourself but I totally understand your predictiment.
I hope the support the current gov't has shown the Armed Forces continues and you will not have to be out of pocket on the necessities in the future!

Thanks for making a difference!!
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X2

Everyone who went deserves the respect of us all (including my own son who just got home!). Thank you all. Most Canadians don't understand what it means or what it takes. Heck, a lot of people couldn't even spell Afghanistan, let alone find it on a map.
 
I have one question you guys that have been on roto would know the answer to, I never bothered to ask when I was in the reserves. Are you able to bring your own handguns? or do all weapons have to be issued by the cf?
 
We have to use issued weapons. Although, additions that are not permanent, such as stocks, sights, grips are allowed. This is also dependant on the chain of command.
Hoddie
 
hoddie said:
We have to use issued weapons. Although, additions that are not permanent, such as stocks, sights, grips are allowed. This is also dependant on the chain of command.
Hoddie
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Yes, and I would had RSM personnality driven...
 
Hello,
Hoddie, would you buy one? and if you did how much would you be ready to pay for one. I`ve seen that the prices are around $ 7-800.


Sorry for being off topic if I am.

We're behind you all the way - support the troops they need it.
 
Yet I see in Ottawa everyday dozens of overweight air force wogs in CADPAT complete wearing sky blue wool caps and yet somehow that's a more acceptable look???
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I still can't get over the cadpat with CF's

good write-up hoddie!
 
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mags are normally the problem. :(

mags are getting just too old and worn out.

and some of the older pistols are shot out now, can't get them to group.

as for buyign one, dam price seemed to jump recently. I guess I should of bought one about 6 months ago when they were in the $500 range. :(
 
hoddie said:
Larger safety and better sights would be a huge benefit. The magazines were the worst part of the system. As must know, you can have a firearm worth thousands of dollars, but if the mags are junk, how effective can that firearm be? I had to purchase my own aftermarket magazines.
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Hoddie, just curious about the magazine issue.

The only tour I was issued a HP on, we had ample time to wring out the magazines prior to leaving Canada. We went through mags until all the magazines we had reliably worked with our pistol. One of the weapons techs commented during this process that if guys wouldn't keep simply handing non-functioning magazines back to stores without saying anything, it would never have gotten like that in the first place.

So nobody had to go over with crappy mags or bring civvy-sourced mags. That leaves me curious: are the guys cycling back and forth so fast now, along with workup training and whatnot, that there's simply no time to sort out weapons issues prior to departure chalks? Or do we have so many pistols issued out these days that there simply aren't enough magazines and replacement magazine parts available to ensure everyone has reliable magazines? I don't have a problem with the Inglis myself, but no matter what weapon we're talking about, guys should never leave Canada with weapons and magazines that haven't been confirmed as being reliable.
 
I would have to say that it is a work up training thing. There wasn't enough time devoted to pistol shooting IMHO. That being said, getting mags replaced before hand would have been hard to do. There seems to be a shortage of mags that work. We did start to get newer mags overseas from our supply sections. I agree 100% that we should shoot and test all of our equipment prior to deployment. This is an issue I hope to address when I get back off leave. I will be part of the training cadre for the next group of troops leaving from my unit.
To answer the question of "would I own one myself". Yes, I would and I have. I had one a few years back. It replaced my .45 1911 as it was cheaper to shoot. It was a commercial model with upgraded sights and safety. I sold it in favor of a Glock 17, which went for a Sig P226, which in turn went for another Browning Hi Power. I got another BHP just prior to me deploying so I could do some of my own shooting on the range. As I stated above, we didn't get the required amount of pistol training in work up. This is just my opinion remember. I also got the gun so I could set up my gear for my tour. Holsters, mag pouches, chest rig, etc. Now that I am back, I have sold the BHP and gone back to A Glock 17. A far better handgun I think. I have a choice of what I can use now too.
Hoddie.
 
Another thing that a lot of people seem to forget, is that prior to Afghanistan, we never had that many pistol out at the same time. The last time we had so many soldiers deployed was when we had 2 Battle groups in ex-yougoslavia (more than 10 years ago) Another thing is back then, Pistols were only issued to officers and maybe some section cmdr... Now they are everywhere here, including a lot of people who don't need it. But even in the field, a lot more troops get pistols as sidearms, it is not perfect but it is improving.


The 2 issued mag I have right now are different, 1 WWII JI and one newer that was probably made by promag. They work ok, but I empty one of them every 2 days

All I can say about mine, is I wish that the CF would invest 20$ per pistols to get us a MK III safety lever just like the brits...
 
As a potential recruit this has me worried. If the troops lack support with something so simple as mag supply? I mean its one of the verry most basic and essential peices of kit there is. Its only going to be a matter of time before a failure leads to a member getting killed/maimed. The verry least they could do is get the guys to buy and maintain there kit if they are that cheap/not motovated to get er done?

The HP is a decent enough gun, I would take it over the m9 probably. But there are allot better choices than that. I would take my sig 226 .40s&w into combat any day of the week even with 10rd mags and 180fmj! Even better as a service type gun would be the dak if they are not going to have people regularly practice and become proficiant with the gun.
 
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Big JD-From the hills said:
As a potential recruit this has me worried. If the troops lack support with something so simple as mag supply? I mean its one of the verry most basic and essential peices of kit there is. Its only going to be a matter of time before a failure leads to a member getting killed/maimed. The verry least they could do is get the guys to buy and maintain there kit if they are that cheap/not motovated to get er done?

The HP is a decent enough gun, I would take it over the m9 probably. But there are allot better choices than that. I would take my sig 226 .40s&w into combat any day of the week even with 10rd mags and 180fmj! Even better as a service type gun would be the dak if they are not going to have people regularly practice and become proficiant with the gun.
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Relax! (And v-e-r-y only has one /r/.)

The guys who are posting here are far more concerned about handgunning and tuning than 95% of the rest of the CF. They are worrying about their gear because they know what works and what doesn't. Hoddie is the exception to the rule.

The mag problem is symptimatic of other issues in the CF. We have not been in a shooting war since brief episodes in the Balkans. The troops are constantly pushing their gear to the limits, and it is bending the supply chain beyond its limits. For example, there is another post about Chinese-marked Inglis slides appearing on HP pistols coming out of depot. What the hell is left? If it is any comparison, the Americans have the same problem with handgun mags in Iraq. Every swinging #### needs eight or ten, and they just don't exist in the supply stream.

January 2003 I stood on guard in Bosnia, and reflected that of my personal equipment only the bayonet and scabbard were unchanged from when I stood guard in January 1991 in Bahrain during the Gulf War.

As a former recruiter, I would say breathe through you nose. Life does improve, and people learn much faster than they get credit for. Yes, even in the military. But, no you will not be allowed to bring your own gun to war - should you be so fortunate.
 
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