After neck sizing, rounds too tight, what gives?

Hihi962

Hihi962

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Not sure what's goin on? But I have been reloading various rifle calibers just using neck resizing, trimmed cases adequately, even tried seating bullets different depths.
In the end there are some rounds I can't close the bolt on (fired from same gun, no question) but over all, most are really tight, creating unnecessary wear on the bolt. Some will get stuck if you press the bolt handle a bit.
What is causing this? Any idea?

Just using a single stage press, I can't imagine the die is setup wrong, there isn't much to change? Read instructions several times, so it seems it's all correct? Yet they are tight, I don't seem to be using much oil (wiped off), yet I still manage to get a big deep dimple on the shoulder sometimes too.
 
You need to bump back the shoulder every now and then. You don't need to size the case all the way back down, something like a shoulder bump die would work in this case. I always full length resize myself, I use Redding competition shell holders to bump my shoulder approximately .002" from where the case would start interfering with the bolt closing.
 
Your dimple or hydraulic dent is usually caused by a plugged vent hole is the shoulder of the die from over lubing, dirty brass etc.. You need to check the case length that may need to be trimmed after the sizing die as the case will elongate / stretched slightly which may be the reason for the tight fit. Don't force it if its a tight fit, set it aside and pull it with a kinetic hammer Keep the bullet and powder, spray the primer inside the case with an inert lube, (WD-40 or similar), before resizing it again. But after you have thoroughly cleaned the sizing die and vent hole and check it often Reformed the case and checked the length and trimmed it as required.
The better the case cleaning practices, yields better results. The hydraulic dents will normally fire form out, to your chamber dimensions, unless your using hotter loads or range brass from where ever. Buying or making a go / no go cartridge checker, with a little car wax on a sized dummy round, in drywall plaster of Paris, will ensure you have the right fit, the first time around. Check and re-check the chamber, just to play it safe.
Different bullets can also affect your Overall length (OAL) seating dimensions, on the rifle lands, during fire forming. As well older dies as chambers too may not be 100% in spec to SAMMI and gauging them with mics , is more time consuming and costly, than buying another new set of dies. But spending a time and money, helps in accuracy. Have fun and when you achieved those small groups, its a gratifying feeling and well worth the extra effort.
Cheers.
Driller
 
propliner said:
Yep, the shoulder needs pushed back a bit.
Click to expand...
So there is an actual shoulder bump shell holder? I figured the neck resizer did the neck and shoulder? Guess I am a little confused as what needs to be done, as some of this is once fired federal brass.

Driller said:
Your dimple or hydraulic dent is usually caused by a plugged vent hole is the shoulder of the die from over lubing, dirty brass etc.. You need to check the case length that may need to be trimmed after the sizing die as the case will elongate / stretched slightly which may be the reason for the tight fit. Don't force it if its a tight fit, set it aside and pull it with a kinetic hammer Keep the bullet and powder, spray the primer inside the case with an inert lube, (WD-40 or similar), before resizing it again. But after you have thoroughly cleaned the sizing die and vent hole and check it often Reformed the case and checked the length and trimmed it as required.
The better the case cleaning practices, yields better results. The hydraulic dents will normally fire form out, to your chamber dimensions, unless your using hotter loads or range brass from where ever. Buying or making a go / no go cartridge checker, with a little car wax on a sized dummy round, in drywall plaster of Paris, will ensure you have the right fit, the first time around. Check and re-check the chamber, just to play it safe.
Different bullets can also affect your Overall length (OAL) seating dimensions, on the rifle lands, during fire forming. As well older dies as chambers too may not be 100% in spec to SAMMI and gauging them with mics , is more time consuming and costly, than buying another new set of dies. But spending a time and money, helps in accuracy. Have fun and when you achieved those small groups, its a gratifying feeling and well worth the extra effort.
Cheers.
Driller
Click to expand...

So the WD-40 is to saturate the primer for no detonation? when I run the case through the die again, as it's gonna punch out the primer.
I have one of those multi-caliber case length checkers, if any don't fit, I trim, I just don't get how the shoulder needs to be pushed back as it should fire form to my chamber, no? If it was shot in the gun, ejected clean, how does it not fit after using a neck sizing die?

I just read the instructions on how to use the die and press, I see I should really spend more time learning other fundamentals, for example: seating depth, I just go by the book for OAL, but I understand that the "bullet jump" can make a lot of performance changes apparently?
 
If you can, just take the pin out of the decapper ,leaving just the sizing button on there. WD 40 won't do a thing to a live primer, it will still go bang. Many people including me, have decapped live primers, if for some reason you maybe hit it too hard or something weird like that on the upstroke, and it does go off, it will surprise you, but the die will contain it no sweat, it will blow the primer out the bottom, not worth worrying about, other than a bit of noise. Try cleaning your die out, may just be that the vent hole is partially plugged, although you'll usually feel that on the upstroke, feels like cushion tying to stop the case from entering the die. Neck sizers don't do anything to the shoulder. You can get the Redding shellholders or a neck sizing bushing/bump die, take your pick, best used with a case measuring tool like the Hornady one. I usually use my fingers to lube a case for FLS, just press them on the pad and wipe onto the case. Imperial sizing wax is even better. I also use a dry neck lube brush set, uses dry mica lube to lube the neck, reduces drag coming out of the die quite noticeably. Forster and Lyman make the kits. That is all I use when neck sizing.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product-category/case-sizing-lubricating/sizing-lubricants/

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pro...ing/bushing-bump-neck-bench-rest-sizing-dies/

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...gauges/headspace-comparator-anvil-base-kit#!/

https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets
 
you need to know the head space of your chamber, and be able to measure your brass for HS fit. forcing your bolt closed is a big no-no. do more reading.
 
Do yourself a favour and buy a Redding body die for the caliber you need. You can run your loaded ammo through the body die safely to give the loaded rounds just a little more resize to fit your chamber. Just remember to lube the loaded case just as you would when running it through when resizing an unloaded case. If you have to tear down your loaded ammo use a kinetic bullet puller and resize as normal. if you pull the depriming pin out of the die you can reuse the primer, if not just resize as normal. Never had a live primer go off when resizing and I have done a few hundred of them.
 
Neck die only does the neck as the name says.

Depending on how many times you have reloaded case necks could be work hardened and therefore will have more spring back.

If you are getting a big deep dimple on your shoulders using a neck sizing die, lube is not the issue. Look for contaminates in your die.

Even with the cases i neck size, i will eventually have to run them through a full length sizing die.

Pull the load. If you are scared to deprime, pull the load and fire off the primers in a safe manner.

WD40 old wives tale.

If these are ment as precision target rounds, get all the fancy gagets mentioned in the posts above, if not, pick up a fls die. Full length resize when you find you are starting to have issues.

Always make a some complete rounds and test before you go nuts doing a batch.
 
Color up one of those tight cases with a jiffy marker and try to chamber it - the marker will rub off where it fits tight. Could be your neck sizing is pushing back and therefore swelling the shoulder diameter. Could be your brass necks are too thick so that with a bullet seated, it is tight in your chamber neck. Marker will help you identify where the issue is. Also, take a fired case from your rifle. Neck size it. Without priming or seating a bullet, does the case chamber easily? It all helps to figure out where is the issue. The best gauge for checking your brass is your rifle's chamber. There is also the dreaded "banana" case to check in to - fired brass is slightly bent/curved in your chamber and only fits back in when in the same orientation. I load for several cartridges / rifles. In all of them, finished run-out (or, more correctly, the lack of it) is way more important in my rifles than whether case is full or neck sized, so long as either is carefully fit to that rifle's chamber.
 
Next time you post, please mention the calibre involved, the rifle and the neck sizer involved.

The suggestion to use a Sharpie to mark the case so you can see what is binding is a good one.

Are you using a neck sizing die? Or are you using a Full Length die that is back out a bit so is sizes the neck and not the body?

I suspect the latter, because you mentioned a lube dent. (Don't worry about the dent. It is just cosmetic. probably means too much lube, which is a lot better than not enough lube.)

If you pull a bullet and want to re-size the case, there is no need to oil the primer. It will come out easily when you size, just like a dead one. I have de-capped thousands of live primers and never had one go off. If it did go off, it would not be a big deal, unless you were looking down into the case at the time.

The seater die is also mouth crimping die. Back the die out a half turn and lock it in place. This will stop it from crimping, in case you were over-crimping and causing a little bulge. That can cause the symptoms you describe.

The case may need a should set-back. Pull the bullet from an offending case and dump the powder (checking for a bulged mouth/crimp first)
and gently try to close the bolt on this round. If it chambers easily, this suggests a mouth crimp bulge. If you fee resistance, don't force the bolt closed - that would just size the case in the chamber.

If there was resistance on the empty case this suggests a shoulder issue. Pull a few more problem cases, dump the powder and lube the cases.

Screw your FL die down until it hits the shell holder and then size one lubricated case and see if that now chambers easily. If it does, the problem was the shoulder, and sizing is the cure.

Now unscrew the die one full rev so it no longer hits the shell holder. Size a case and see if it chambers ok. If not, turn it in a half rev. If it does, turn it out a full rev and try another case.

For shoulder bumping/neck sizing you want to find the place where the die kisses the shoulder and pushes it back a smidgen so the case will chamber easily.
 
So I have:
Single stage Lyman press
Neck size die RCBS
FL die RCBS
Case lube pad
Brass is all Remington or Federal some of it that nickel stuff.
Guns:
Rem 700 22-250 - this ammo seems to be the most problematic for not being able to close bolt and shoulder dents, some fired once, some 10 times, all have same issues.
Tikka deluxe 25-06 - when seating these bullet it also strips off a little copper, not sure why? It worries me about deforming the jacket.
Browning A-boltII 270wsm - the odd dent, some snug fits, mostly just strips off a bit of copper.

Not sure why it strips a little off, I even tried deburring to the point of creating a big chamfer, don't help.
I have also punched out live primers too, just was curious about the WD-40.
 
Wow! Three different cartridges. The press is the only common factor that you've mentioned. Have you checked its alignment? (concentricity of the ram to the threads).
 
Okay I'll stick my two cents worth in here. Is there anyone in your area that can have a look at your setup and reloading process.
Three rifles ? I assume you are using newer gear. Possibly under size mandrill on NS die causing shavings. Are you using heavily compressed loads and using excessive force seating bullet causing case to expand. My 6.5 Swed starts getting tight on it's sixth firing, time to FL size.
Find some who can watch how you reload , you maybe doing something wrong and not realize it.
Everyone is trying to make an educated guess. Try full length sizing and load and see if you have any problems
 
Hihi962 said:
So I have:
Single stage Lyman press
Neck size die RCBS
FL die RCBS
Case lube pad
Brass is all Remington or Federal some of it that nickel stuff.
Guns:
Rem 700 22-250 - this ammo seems to be the most problematic for not being able to close bolt and shoulder dents, some fired once, some 10 times, all have same issues.
Tikka deluxe 25-06 - when seating these bullet it also strips off a little copper, not sure why? It worries me about deforming the jacket.
Browning A-boltII 270wsm - the odd dent, some snug fits, mostly just strips off a bit of copper.

Not sure why it strips a little off, I even tried deburring to the point of creating a big chamfer, don't help.
I have also punched out live primers too, just was curious about the WD-40.
Click to expand...

Bullet shaving suggests a sharp case mouth that needs to be champfered.

Take a sized case and chamber it.

If it chambers easily, do the same to all the sized cases. If they all chamber, then it is not a case sizing issue.

Then load them as I suggest, with the seater die turned out a half rev (and the seater stem down a bit to compensate). Try chambering these. If the is any resistance, use the Sharpie to find out what is tight.
 
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